Profile of Mr Carmine

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Thread: Rifle grenade=dodge BUT allied grenade=MP bleed7 Aug 2020, 15:35 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Aug 2020, 14:39 PMachpawel None of this changes the general pattern. One situation with vet 3 above 80% health gren squad changes nothing tbh. Just an exception from the rule which does not change the rule. How mp per model is counted changes nothing in this discussion, either. You look at the one thing that is how effevtive every grenade type is. That is limited to a handfull of cases throughout the game. You give a very short sighted perspective esp when you use the 30 mp per model vs 18/20 per model. With grenades larger squads are easier to hit with grenades cuz of models jumping in all directions. The p4 killing 3 models in a single shot is not uncommon. This has to do with the spacing again. The t34 will almost never do this vs ost because of fewer models that can clump or jump together. I will leave it here. I dont think you can move past everything is worse for axis period. Good luck with that. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Rifle grenade=dodge BUT allied grenade=MP bleed7 Aug 2020, 14:12 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Aug 2020, 14:03 PMachpawel But it has nothing to do with that. What matters is the cost of models. With osttruppen builds ostheer will probably lose more models. With elite infantry builds it will be fewer. Grenades kill 80hp entities. The manpower cost is different for different models but grenades treat them the same. So killing an obersldaten model will cost okw 40 manpower while killing a shocktroop or guards model will cost much less. Grens will lose 30 manpower per model while cons will lose much less, etc. Same for UKF and USF infantry. It has everything to do with it. Say conscripts loose 50 models in a game. For simplicity take them at 18mp reinforce after the upgrade. Thats 900mp for reinforcing. Grens loose 30 models x 30 reinforce thats also 900 mp. Soviets loose the most models by far. Hence cheap reinforcing is a trait to stem the bleed. Cons have about 30% more losses but the mp spent on reinforcing is about the same. Rifles also drop more models then grens overall. Hence their slightly cheaper reinforce cost. It all evens out about equally in the end. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Rifle grenade=dodge BUT allied grenade=MP bleed7 Aug 2020, 10:39 AM Jump back to quoted post7 Aug 2020, 07:25 AMachpawel Similar grenade use skills will lead to similar number of models killed for both allies and axis. This will usually transfer to more manpower lost for the axis, especially ostheer. Different model count for squads affects the grenade balance. It is also one of the reasons why osttruppen doctrines are popular. Check the aftermatch grahps. It tends to show allies lost more models, lost more tanks, more damage taken due to the overall but not every case higher dps and mostly more durable tanks. This is mostly the case unless axis where dominated that game. The higher reinforce cost for inf and pricier tanks for axis even it out at the end. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Rifle grenade=dodge BUT allied grenade=MP bleed7 Aug 2020, 06:34 AM Jump back to quoted post7 Aug 2020, 01:42 AMthedarkarmadillo Tldr. Different but not neceshsarily worse. Yeah indeed. I did not say its the worst nor the best. Juat that in certain situations its very deadly. And can occasion wipe full health bunched up squads. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Rifle grenade=dodge BUT allied grenade=MP bleed6 Aug 2020, 18:07 PM Jump back to quoted post6 Aug 2020, 15:33 PMachpawel Not really. This grenade sidetech is not always used only because allied players prefer to get AEC, T70, or generally armour as soon as possible. They also prefer not to spend resources (fuel, monpower, munitions) on nades because they can be dodged (to many players weapon upgrades or offmaps are better in the long run). Having a vehicle faster usually will bleed the enemy more reliably and will save munitions on the mentioned upgrades or offmaps. Plus elite infantry units get grenades irrespective of extra tech premium. So what happens is that extra tech can be skipped to have vehicles faster (axis can't really do that) and elite infantry squads will have their grenades anyway. Footnote: with UKF grenade tech is actually recommended instead of weapon upgrades early game (probably due to their grenade great cost/power efficiency) I cant comment on the aec, i dont play brits much. The t70 however is not a preverence, it is a must and is used because its the only reliable way they put the pressure on the enemy. As soviets have no nades or upgrades stock. Unlike all other armies, they cant put out as much bleed let alone wipe until the t70 arrives. They dont scale as well towards the mid game without it. It also arrives very late. Giving ample time to prepare for it, you know its coming regardless of how well its going. Skipping the extra cost leaves you without nades snares or upgrads for inf depending on the faction. This will put even more importanc/pressure on that lv. Its a risk you take. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Rifle grenade=dodge BUT allied grenade=MP bleed6 Aug 2020, 11:05 AM Jump back to quoted post6 Aug 2020, 09:19 AMachpawel That is actually true. I wrote accuracy but meant dps. And you spotted it right. Still the important point is that grenades used by allies are usually more cost-effective. They simply deal more manpower drain per munitions cost. It is due to generally larger allied squads and the fact that each model in game is 80 hp and it does not matter if it is elite or not. The killed models are more expensive for the axis on average. Of course grenades have to be used with skill (such as drain some health first and then use it) which just blurs the balance picture. A skilled player playing axis will use grenades in a better way and some allied players might seek balance issues. The reality is that it is more likely that same skilled players will find it easier to use allied nades rooster. Yeah no problem we all make mistakes or get things wrong. Like my moving dps off guards being really pis poor. I agree allied nades are more cost effective but they use nades far less then axis. This cuz they are either tech or doctrinaly locked. Also sections and rifles are very expensive to upgrade. This in turn leads to less midel losses overall and probably evens out the bleed across factions. (Edited) In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Rifle grenade=dodge BUT allied grenade=MP bleed6 Aug 2020, 11:01 AM Jump back to quoted post6 Aug 2020, 08:28 AMSerrith The on the move attributes for guard mosins are as follows: x0.75 Accuracy x0.5 Cooldown duration So the guards take a 25% hit to accuracy on the move, but the cooldown time between shots is halved, resulting in an extremely high mobile dps ratio(per weapon). By contrast, the conscript penalties are: x0.5 Accuracy x1.5 Cooldown duration So only 50% accuracy, and a 50% increase to cooldown times. The mobile dps of a conscript squad at 20m is 5.226 while the mobile dps of 2 Guard rifles at 20m is 4.596. Because of the specific attributes effected, this creates an interesting situation where the long range mobile DPS is actually effected quite a bit less than the close range dps(although the close range DPS still has a good ratio) because at long range, cooldown times tend to be much greater and reducing them by a percentage has a VERY positive effect on overall DPS(at those ranges). At max range, Guards rifles have nearly full dps on the move. This is something we also see on panzergrenadiers. I didnt take the cooldown modifier into account. Thanks for the explenation. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Rifle grenade=dodge BUT allied grenade=MP bleed6 Aug 2020, 05:27 AM Jump back to quoted post6 Aug 2020, 02:23 AMSerrith Upgraded guards have almost as much dps on the move as a full conscript squad. That's 2 rifles vs 6. When not upgraded, guards have some of the highest on the move DPS of any bolt action squad in the game. When i look at damage accuracy aim time reload etc of both. I dont see how 2 rifles off guards can amount to being almost as good as 6 conscript rifles on the move. Did you maybe run it through the dps caculator? In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Rifle grenade=dodge BUT allied grenade=MP bleed5 Aug 2020, 10:57 AM Jump back to quoted post5 Aug 2020, 09:21 AMachpawel You suggested such grenade can wipe six men support weapons crew - it cannot unless in some completely unrealistic scenario. That was an exaggeration. Just like with all grenades. They can be deadly. Rifle nade is usually good against rather "fresh" players. It is generally very easy to dodge. It's lethality is lower than standard nades. Gameplaywise, it is usually easier to drain some health close range and just finish the unit with a standard grenade than deal enough damage far range to finish a squad with a rifle made. The latter option just gives players more time to react. Accuracy is just one of many stats that add up here. Grens have worse dps on the move compared to other mainline inf. Especially after they are upgraded with mg42. First you exaggerated accusing me of doing that. Now you are simply manipulating trying to picture rifle nades as the most potent. UKF or USF nades are imo better, definitely not worse than rifle nades. I'll end it with this. That the rifle nade can one shot but not very often does not make it an unrealistic scenario. Its just uncommon. All that is needed is bunched up inf/teamweapon (6 men or 4 models) and the player to be distracted elsewhere. Nothing acagerating about that. Its balanced this way because it can be fired from further away. And that pgrens also have a excelent nade. You claim that grens have bad moving acc. They do not. Now when proven wrong you resort to: but moving acc it just one stat of many involved. Just admit it when you getting something wrong or miss reference etc. We are all human. The biggist factor is that grens have few rifles and the lmg cant be fired on the move. That is why on the move they dont do as well. Guards have it even worse. When upgraded 4 out the 6 weapons cant be fired on the move. But gaurds are fine like this. I have data for reference and to reach my arguments. I manipulate nothing here. You just jump to a conclusions. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Rifle grenade=dodge BUT allied grenade=MP bleed5 Aug 2020, 08:46 AM Jump back to quoted post5 Aug 2020, 06:35 AMachpawel it is notthe same. Most close/mid range inf have better accuracy on the move. Ost is in a much better spot than it used to be. I'm not exaggerating just explaining the faction differences and their consequences. Look at this about rifle nade: That is a book definition of exaggerating I'm afraid mate. So me saying the riflenade can but not always 1 shot or nearly one shot wipe is excagerating? Wich in no way untrue. I learned the hard way to avoid yellow cover with mg's and mortars's at the hand of riflenades. You claiming the really bad moving acc on grens is worse then all other inf is not? wich is wrong btw and is standard among most infantry including grens. Its 0.5 You need to get a correct dictionary my friend. In: COH2 Balance