Rifle grenade=dodge BUT allied grenade=MP bleed

Jump back to quoted post4 Aug 2020, 14:55 PMHannibal

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Jump back to quoted post4 Aug 2020, 14:58 PMelchino7

I think the problem is less the total cost rather than the timing at which you have to expend those.

Jump back to quoted post4 Aug 2020, 15:31 PMGoldenpunch

Rifle grenades can be easily dodged. But it moves units out of cover. So usually one model drop from grens mg42.

Jump back to quoted post4 Aug 2020, 15:43 PMachpawel

plus (maybe even more importantly) stops them from firing as grens don't fire on the move with their mg42, plus get really bad penalty when moving for their kars.

Jump back to quoted post4 Aug 2020, 17:58 PMmrgame2

rifle nades is bad because it takes too long to animate and up against mobile 5-6 man squads, weapon teams with faster move times.

it is the worst infantry nade.

Jump back to quoted post4 Aug 2020, 18:12 PMMr Carmine

It can handely wipe team weapons on yellow cover in one shot from full health and 6 men. In yellow cover they tend to bunch up. If the opponent usent paying attention it will be very deadly to setup teams. Just against inf not so much. Ost has pgrens and bbq track to deal with regular inf easy.

Jump back to quoted post4 Aug 2020, 18:19 PMmrgame2

it is still the worse nade

Jump back to quoted post4 Aug 2020, 18:19 PMmrgame2

it is still the worse nade

Jump back to quoted post4 Aug 2020, 17:52 PMMr Carmine

That really bad moving penalty is the same for most inf. Esp with standard rifles. Grens have 16 damage high rof single shot rifles to boot.

Jump back to quoted post4 Aug 2020, 17:52 PMMr Carmine

Again you over exagerate stuff to try and paint poor poor ost as very up. This needs to stop.

Jump back to quoted post4 Aug 2020, 17:52 PMMr Carmine

It can handely wipe team weapons on yellow cover in one shot from full health and 6 men. In yellow cover they tend to bunch up. If the opponent usent paying attention it will be very deadly to setup teams. Just against inf not so much. Ost has pgrens and bbq track to deal with regular inf easy.

Jump back to quoted post5 Aug 2020, 06:35 AMachpawel

it is notthe same. Most close/mid range inf have better accuracy on the move.

Ost is in a much better spot than it used to be. I'm not exaggerating just explaining the faction differences and their consequences.

Look at this about rifle nade:

That is a book definition of exaggerating I'm afraid mate.

Jump back to quoted post5 Aug 2020, 08:46 AMMr Carmine

So me saying the riflenade can but not always 1 shot or nearly one shot wipe is excagerating?

Jump back to quoted post5 Aug 2020, 08:46 AMMr Carmine

Wich in no way untrue. I learned the hard way to avoid yellow cover with mg's and mortars's at the hand of riflenades.

Jump back to quoted post5 Aug 2020, 08:46 AMMr Carmine

You claiming the really bad moving acc on grens is worse then all other inf is not? wich is wrong btw and is standard among most infantry including grens. Its 0.5

Jump back to quoted post5 Aug 2020, 08:46 AMMr Carmine

You need to get a correct dictionary my friend.

Jump back to quoted post5 Aug 2020, 09:21 AMachpawel

You suggested such grenade can wipe six men support weapons crew - it cannot unless in some completely unrealistic scenario. That was an exaggeration.

Just like with all grenades. They can be deadly. Rifle nade is usually good against rather "fresh" players. It is generally very easy to dodge. It's lethality is lower than standard nades. Gameplaywise, it is usually easier to drain some health close range and just finish the unit with a standard grenade than deal enough damage far range to finish a squad with a rifle made. The latter option just gives players more time to react.

Accuracy is just one of many stats that add up here. Grens have worse dps on the move compared to other mainline inf. Especially after they are upgraded with mg42.

First you exaggerated accusing me of doing that. Now you are simply manipulating trying to picture rifle nades as the most potent. UKF or USF nades are imo better, definitely not worse than rifle nades.

Jump back to quoted post5 Aug 2020, 10:57 AMMr Carmine

Guards have it even worse. When upgraded 4 out the 6 weapons cant be fired on the move. But gaurds are fine like this.

I have data for reference and to reach my arguments.

Jump back to quoted post6 Aug 2020, 02:23 AMSerrith

Upgraded guards have almost as much dps on the move as a full conscript squad. That's 2 rifles vs 6. When not upgraded, guards have some of the highest on the move DPS of any bolt action squad in the game.

Jump back to quoted post6 Aug 2020, 05:27 AMMr Carmine

When i look at damage accuracy aim time reload etc of both. I dont see how 2 rifles off guards can amount to being almost as good as 6 conscript rifles on the move.

Did you maybe run it through the dps caculator?

Jump back to quoted post5 Aug 2020, 10:57 AMMr Carmine

Now when proven wrong you resort to: but moving acc it just one stat of many involved.
Just admit it when you getting something wrong or miss reference etc. We are all human.

Jump back to quoted post6 Aug 2020, 08:28 AMSerrith

The on the move attributes for guard mosins are as follows:
x0.75 Accuracy
x0.5 Cooldown duration

So the guards take a 25% hit to accuracy on the move, but the cooldown time between shots is halved, resulting in an extremely high mobile dps ratio(per weapon).

By contrast, the conscript penalties are:
x0.5 Accuracy
x1.5 Cooldown duration
So only 50% accuracy, and a 50% increase to cooldown times.

The mobile dps of a conscript squad at 20m is 5.226 while the mobile dps of 2 Guard rifles at 20m is 4.596.

Because of the specific attributes effected, this creates an interesting situation where the long range mobile DPS is actually effected quite a bit less than the close range dps(although the close range DPS still has a good ratio) because at long range, cooldown times tend to be much greater and reducing them by a percentage has a VERY positive effect on overall DPS(at those ranges). At max range, Guards rifles have nearly full dps on the move. This is something we also see on panzergrenadiers.

Jump back to quoted post6 Aug 2020, 09:19 AMachpawel

That is actually true. I wrote accuracy but meant dps. And you spotted it right.

Still the important point is that grenades used by allies are usually more cost-effective. They simply deal more manpower drain per munitions cost. It is due to generally larger allied squads and the fact that each model in game is 80 hp and it does not matter if it is elite or not. The killed models are more expensive for the axis on average. Of course grenades have to be used with skill (such as drain some health first and then use it) which just blurs the balance picture. A skilled player playing axis will use grenades in a better way and some allied players might seek balance issues. The reality is that it is more likely that same skilled players will find it easier to use allied nades rooster.