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I do not understand why he keeps mentioning the Raketenwerfer against the Heavy-tanks. No Allies user complains that it's difficult to match the axis's heavy-tank with the ATG. Even though they have the same or lower penetration power and a slower firing rate of ATG. ATG was not designed to deal with heavy-tanks mainly. Obviously, the axis has at least three options to against Heavy-tanks; Panther, Heavy tanks and Heavy TD(Elephant, Jagdtiger). Let's assume that RW is a perfect against for all allies' tanks. Do you think the situation where the tier0 unit is able to deal with all allies' tanks is the right balance?
Most ATGs are torpor in situations when they are attacked without infantry support against enemy tanks. This is not only RW's weakness at all. Rather, when this situation is reached, RW is much more likely to self-extinguish with retreat and camo than other ATGs. This is also why the RW is infiltrated by the assassination task alone. Here, some of users who say that RW has a problem seem to exaggerating a very special situation and telling a very biased story. According to this story, the ostheer's Pak40 will be an OP ATG (quick rate of fire, 60 range, high penetrations, stun ability) with no disadvantages to destroy all balance. The reality is not so.
Please try to play at least another faction before telling this story. In this situation, the OKW belongs to the OP faction with the highest win ration with Soviet in GCS, but the biased story in here refers to the OKW as an irredeemable rubbish. I feel really tired of these stories. |
TL : DR the ZiS is a god tier ATG and the Raketten is an absolute piece of trash with the stealth cheese being the only thing that makes it barely usable. I would always trade my Raketten for a ZiS without doubt. And I would trade the camouflage for 60 range without doubt too.
jee. You have the exact opposite idea to me. This does not show any compromise at all. I play all five faction, but always choose RW and Pak40 to choose the best ATG, and ZiS if I choose the worst ATG. |
The comparison between M-42 and RW is and old story and it used repeatedly when people where asking for the M-42 to get cloak, retreat and garrison.
Currently M-42 is an extremely cost efficient unit with high fire rate, cloak bonus from vet 0 that can even help vs medium tanks with the vet 3 and first strike bonuses.
RW is a completely inconstant unit it can be prove great or it can die before hitting the enemy vehicle a single shot. Zis a far more reliable ATG.(generally speaking the majority of ATGs are more consistent and reliable).
Changes to RW should aim it in making its performance more consistent and reliable and I see little reason for it to have much AI capability unless one wants to turn it in P.shreck on wheels.
If you think of a probability-based story, the probability that allies AT-gun will cause ricochet will be higher than the probability that a camo raketen will die without shooting one shot. Be careful when talking about stability to most units. In other words, allies' tanks are very likely to have double Raketenwerfers hitting a bunch of hiding places and temporarily hitting four penetrated rounds and being destroyed. At least the axis tanks have a slightly higher chance of survival from ricochet in this situation. When Rackenwerfer dies in a pair when talking about instability, it's really bad for RNG. This is not just for the RW, but for almost all AT-guns.
anyway, I don't think bad to change RW's range, but Anti-personal abilities are different stories. |
And if you make calculation you should be using the correct values and not the ones that are better for your argument.
Bottom line here is that zis is a far more consistent ATG that RW and I would swap it for RW when I play OKW in most cases.
My comments are all about one story. Raketenwerfer has no problem in destroying or blocking Medium-tanks as other AT-guns do, but rather quite good due to various utilities. It is not a unit to compare to the M-42, just like the first comment on the comments I put on it.
The M-42 is close to the emergency prescription for early-game light-tanks. It's not a good story for Raketenwerfer to talk about the need to obtain anti-personal abilities such as M-42.
Like the first opinion, if Raketenwerfer were to remove the Retreat ability instead of raising the Range to 60 is fine or not, anyway it's why the majority of people at the same time refusing to get an anti-personal ability; Raketenwerfer has no difficulty in carrying out it's own job. |
Yet the reload of the RW is 3.8 - 4.3 averaged at 4.05 and you choose to use only the lower value.
yeah that's true, but if you calculate maximum value, it still faster than ZiS almost 16%.
so focus on my point, Raketenwerfer wasn't bad to requires any buff. |
I think Hoshi means the Raketen has faster penetration drop-off cause of its lower range, giving the Zis better penetration at equal ranges.
The raketen is also lower to the ground, meaning scatter shots hit the ground more frequently.
scatters effect by height levels are hard to calculate how really they effects on their accuracy(cause it effected on maps), but anyway it isn't effects more than specs. |
really? u calc the vet 5 stats? From rakten? you will hardly seen a vet 5 rakten in most games....cause of diying like fly in no time most fights it sees.
all of this calculations are 0 vet stats. |
Where did you learn how to do math?
No it does not. Perhaps when you figure out why they are not equal you will know you are out of your depth
than where did you learn your math?
they has exactly same penetrations/accuracy bro. see stats.
(penetrations 200/190/180 , accuracy 6%/4%)
raketen's maximum range penetration is 180, and there are no tanks to allies more than 180 armor without commander skills or brits hammer/anvil tactics units. sherman has 160 armor, t34 has 150, cromwell has 160 front armor too.
all allies medium tanks has no chance for ricochet against raketen.
and how about m42 's 80 penetrations?
so focus on origin questions; is raketen needs anti-personal abilities? |
thats a joke, right?
- rakten has less range than zis
- rakten dies when u look at it
- rakten set more shots into the ground
- rakten has less arc when i remember right
how can it be better vs heavy armor when it dies much much much faster than a zis and will mostly 1-2 shots less than the zis cause of its less range??
- can camo
- faster reload (almost 30% faster than ZiS)
- evasion bonus 15%
ZiS has delay before shot 0.125s + relosds 4.475s + after shot 1s = total 5.6s for reload.
raketen has 0s + 3.8s + 0.5s = total 4.3s for reload.
5.6s/4.3s = 1.30
30% more dps means quite many thinks, don't you think? |
ZiS also has anti inf but can take on tigers and panther. I don't see how expensive AI abilities would be that bad if the cheese like stealth and retreat was removed
In return, Zis lost some of his AT ability. Zis has the slowest reload speed and the most expensive of all AT-guns. Also, ZiS' barrage skill is not free.
and you know that? ZiS has same penetrations to Raketenwerfer. (200/190/180)
If ZiS can counter heavy tanks, Raketenwerfer is also possible. well, actually do better. |
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