Get
In
Close
Range
In this game, "get in close range" is very difficult. As a typical example, assault grenadiers have the most powerful close range DPS in early games, and even have a sprint skill that makes the "get in close range" even better, but it's hard to rate it as an OP unit. Panzer Grenadiers are very powerful in mid-range, close-range, but not OP units at all. Forcing a CQC unconditionally on your opponent in this game means that you give a huge penalty to your opponent. Most of the LMGs in this game are long-range specialized weapons. They decrease the DPS as they approach the close range. As I mentioned before, the "get in close range" in this game is not easy, so most LMGs in late games are very powerful. This is also the answer to why shock trooper and thompson paratroopers are not well visible in high rank games.This problem is synergistic with OKW's Volksgrenadiers' StG44 upgrade. Volksgrenadiers' StG44 upgrade gives a big buff on mid-range and close-range combat. It is called the OP in the general case that a single 250 manpower unit forces you to try CQC.
In addition, units that force a close range approach to the opponent in normal circumstances can force a one-side manpower bleed by pressing the "T" button once when the opponent approaches. This is why the long-range combat unit is so much preferred in this game. |
that gives me an idea... buff the soviet sniper to JLI standards and see how axis riots >.> wehraboo logic = its totally fine when a (postnerf) 280mp squad destroys a 300mp squad...
340 or 280 + 60% crit... those are the only logical conclusions that i have garnered from the testing...
The Soviet Sniper has been causing balance problems for quite a long time. It has now been modified to have almost the same stats as Ostheer's sniper.Sniper is always sensitive to balance. It should always be seen that there is no unit to deal with in an early game. Light tanks and light vehicles can be some sort of countermeasures, but in general, pro-players do not let them get in. In most top 100 players' games, the sniper acts like a predator-free unit. This is why Soviet sniper has been changed from 2 men squad size to 1men squad size to enable at least counter sniping.
The problem with JLI is very diverse. This unit has a critical hit of less than 75% health. This is almost as twice high as 40% of Pathfinders. Most infantry players, especially the baseline infantry, have a very frequent turnover of 70%, rather than the maximum, when carrying out their mission; to keep baseline.
1cp is the amount that can be stacked if there is an initial engagement, and in most 1v1 games it is possible to accumulate as much as 4 minutes before the start of the game. It is a very serious issue to have a long-range specialized unit comparable to obersoldaten at this time. Before the USF normally unlocks the Weapon Rack to upgrade the BAR, JLI upgrades the G43 and even takes on the battlefield. This long-range critical hit is also very powerful in confused combat situations where a large number of troops are fighting backwards. They are difficult to get wiped out like a sniper, and can have almost similar abilities. they even have the ability to maintain some base-line on your own. The fact that these units can only be produced with 250 manpower is a serious problem.
And most of the axis players sometimes mention this. Allied forces consist of three factions, not just one faction. In 1v1 games, they can not produce Riflemen, Sniper and Universal Carrier at the same time. Do not try to solve the JLI problem by touching other units. |
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I do not think that comparing JLI to ober is a false comparison. Both are Anti-Infantry Specialists, elite infantry of 4 men squad size, and utility skills like booby trap. Both have no snare skills, and are long-range combat specialists. Strictly speaking, both are not base-line infantry and are specialized in fire support. The problem is that these fire support units must also be expected to be cost effective. Let's take an extreme example. If the USF's Pathfinders are capable of producing only 50 manpower, Would not this unit cause problems? Pathfinders are very easy to handle with light tanks, with very few utility skills (usually only beacon installations if they are not IR pathfinders). Obviously, however, the price of Pathfinders will also cause another problem if cost effective is ridiculous.
And these conditions are the same for JLI. JLI is not a consuming unit and is not a base-line infantry, but these units must also be mind about cost effective to balanced well.
And now the situation is too restrictive for the allied strategy, and it can be won easily through JLI. This is obviously causing problems.
I would rather suggest a way to convince some axis fanboy of this issue. Temporarily, for a period of about a month, change the USF's Pathfinder ability, demand cp, and price exactly the same as JLI. Maybe the axis fanboys will try to riot on this board in less than a week. |
Yes, JLI are too good for their price right now, relic should increase its price.
But how could you be unable to counter JLI and Jadpanzer combination? JLI has no snare, you can simply use your medium tanks to flank Jadpanzer.
Well, it's ideal.
I played that disgusting game at 'West Wall' maps. at this map, flanking is really hard.
JLI's long sight range prevent to flanking, and so many tank-trap-obstacles make more hard.
I tried already flank, but it not works properly. :/ |
Then imagine that in WFA beta JLI had 3 men, permanent sprint in and out of combat and more firing range then any other squad AND sight range to abuse it.
These JLI are pretty tame compared to old ones.
Cost decrease was completely unneeded.
Totally agreed. I really feel sick of it. :/ |
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I try to say it as mildly as I can here, but I can really be sure that the last patch was one of the worst experiences of my CoH2 play.
JLI spamming is really terrible. Now OKW can only count all combinations of allies when producing JLI and Jagdpanzer since middle of game.
JLI has a total problem. It is too cost effective and easily breaks the core of the infantry battle. I really can not stop it though I know that my opponent is using JLI, where they are going, and what tactics to use.
It's such a bad experience. |
The major problem with the old JLI is they comes too late. The old JLI requires CP2, so OKW player will not be able to call in JLI after they built their 3rd Volks, OKW player have to build the 4th Volks.
2cp requires are not too late. The majority of call-in infantry has a requirement of 2 to 3 cp. Rather, infantry capable of call-in to 0cp or 1cp belongs to a very weak infantry (ex: osttrupen).
Obviously, JLI is more elite infantry than infantry like Ostrruppen or Assault Grenadier.
In mid-game, they are counter by any AA halftrack or light tanks. Infantry section with one bren, guards and penal could counter them.
If you talk like a faction by mixing the UKF and the USF, balance debate is never conclusive. Let's talk about Tommy since we have started the story of the UKF. In the past, Tommy was nerfed with Bren's performance despite the fact that Bren's DPS was so powerful that, such like JLI.
Rakten only has 50 range, and light tanks has 40 range. As long as you do not use your light tanks charge into enemy's formation, your light tanks are safe. Besides, JLI has no snare.
As you mentioned, the light tank has a shorter maximum range than anti-tank gun. JLI is worth it when shooting long distances from the frontline. In most cases, the position of Raketenwerfer is very difficult to predict due to its concealment ability, and it destroys the light train without any ricochet with only 2 or 3 attacks. If two or more Raketenwerfer are used aggressively in a stealth mode, the corresponding side will have to use a light tank very defensively. The problem is that JLI removes infantry at a much faster rate than the light tank's thing in a long-range shot at the frontline.
Think before Tommy's bren was patched in the past. If Tommy collapses the frontline with 2 brens, imagine the other person's AT-gun can not expect there position at all caused by cloaking. USF is now experiencing exactly the same problem. |
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I can not quite understand why buffing JLI. The JLI before patch was already doing enough value as a support unit. they has long sight range, and critical hit skill for under 80% health. that means, they are semi-snipers who has few versatile skills, 4-men squad. Now, it is too cost-effective and many users do JLI spamming. Basically they are not designed to be baseline infantry, but they now perform the role of baseline infantry similarly by collapsing the frontline too fast. Other factions are also difficult, but the USF is particularly hard to deal with. In mid-game, JLI sweeps almost all battlefields. The only countermeasure against this is the collapse of using the armor, but the OKW is easy to deal with with many clocking AT units. In addition to JLI's clocking function, it gives the impression that it is almost against ghost army.
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Assault engineers IMO should be 4 men until like vet1-2.
Bulldozer costs almost the same as a brummbar and has less health and armor, but is faster and turreted. I think it's fine. Brummbar also has a barrage at vet1 and skirts at vet2 (or is it 3?).
Well, actually brummbar is faster than Sherman dozzer.
brumbar - maximum speed 5.7, accelerations 1.9/4.1
dozzers - maximum speed 5.3, accelerations 1.6/4,0
:/
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I think it's pretty unfair to the another CAS skills.
See Airborne Company's P-47 rocket straife, or Stuka CAS.
The P-47 rocket straife requires 12 cp and 240 muni.
There is only 10 difference in muni requirement, and the cp requirement is 2 higher.
Sector assault, however, will cause all infantry and armor to form a "Restricted Area" for quite some time.
Even stationary weapons, such as AT guns and MGs, make it difficult to survive even if you retreat as soon as you see the skill being used.
This skill gives you a great synergy with the Overwatch Doctine's other skill, flare.
I played OKW 30 games and Overwatch doctrine 20 games after the patch, but I felt very OP when I used this sector assault and when I used it.
Setting a Restricted Area for such a long period of time in such a large sector means turning the situation at just a click of a skill.
Considering previous CAS skills, this is obviously OP. |
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