Yes and so what if 1v1 automatch is dead? What do you balance the game around then? 4v4s? 99% of the 4v4 players don't know anything about the game and 4v4s are incredibly dumb. Blob 24/7, spam tank destroyers and arty. That's literally it. Half of the game mechanics don't matter in 4v4s, timings, cover, build orders all go into the trash. If you look at twitch or youtube 90% of the content is for 1v1s and 2v2s, 5% is tightrope being paid to cast 3v3s and 4v4s.
Don't act like you want to balance the game for the majority because an overwhelming majority of the playerbase is playing 4v4s at level 1-16 and it's pretty much an objective fact that axis shits on allies at that level in 4v4s. Go ask anyone in, uhhh, skippy's server or whatever and they will tell you how the mg42, elefant and JT are broken yet you and sturmpanther keep saying allies are better than axis in 4v4s simply because allies can cheese the game better than axis in top 10 arranged team games which happens way less than 1v1 games or normal 4v4 games where the allies get shit on. "1v1s automatch is dead" is literally just an excuse.
And lastly why do we have this server full of top 30-50 1v1/2v2 players if our feedback is going to get dismissed as "1v1 automatch is dead"? Go and post the invite link to this server to the coh3 server so people from game modes where automatch is not dead can help you guys balance the game.
Dude, would you please not act like a 1v1 master race. I even wonder if you have read all of my posts. I have never, ever said I want this game to be balanced for the majority. And I have mentioned I knew the reason why the hell they spend most of the time balance 1v1. What I am mad at is that since John said the team would balance ALL game mods for ALL players, they should show at least a sign of doing so. And if they indeed only will or spend the most time balance for the 1v1, then don't make a false claim like that. |
Thanks God you arrived .... my brain is seriously damaged after reading this shitfest based on stat page which tells you literally nothing ... just like research before election .... Aera is absolutely right and me as a TOP10 RANDOM player I can confirm everything he said ....
(Even for me its much harder to carry as UK or USF cause you need to have good coop with teammate and get into late game where u can have upper hand above enemy) - Only if u are not one of those 90% stupid playerbase and u know which maps are super-strong-axis-favoured and you put vetos on them 
Please, for the love of god, stop using that site for 4v4. As a 4v4 tournament player I can guarantee you that arranged team vs. arranged team in 4v4 is completely balanced or depends on the map.
Random 4v4 automatch is a shitfest of monkey apes that cant deal with the tech tree of USF and soviets. For example soviet t1 players that get rekt by blobs and tank rush because they dont know how to counter it without a HMG or AT gun. Same story with USF tech tree as HMG and AT gun + packhowie are kinda mutually exclusive. Both axis factions always have MG, AT guns and indirect fire no matter how they tech. I have seen it sooooooo many times now on playercards where someone had 60% winrate as axis but 40-45% winrate as allies because of this (ofc the player was just bad as well)
Oh and there is also the 4v4 matchmaking. We (a lot of 4v4 players that I know & myself) have a saying "Do not search allies 4v4 in dead timezones, only in EU afternoon time. You will always get unwinable games."
I trust you guys. And just to clarify, I did not just have a losing streak, and then rage wrote this post. In fact, I am still having a 100% win rate against 100+ players and a roughly 65% win rate against the top 100 players in 4v4. Personally, all of my factions are at a 65%+ win rate except for OKW, which is below 50%.
But here is one thing I don't understand, why the hell does OKW have a 65% win rate in random team 4v4 within the top 200 player pool. That is beyond the statistic error. And it seems like you guys can give me an answer, especially you XARDAS. It does not because we are still winning the games means the balance is fine. Those data are clearly showing something wrong.
And also, just to add to Areafield's matchmaking problem. To those who wonder what timeslot that is, it is around 7 pm UTC+8 to 1 am UTC+8. Most Chinese players play during that time, and most of them love to play Axis. This is why you see a lot of high-rank Axis players but not for the allies. And yes, I know it because I am Chinese.
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Where do you find this info? To my knowledge there was no stats site a year ago. The earliest of pagep's data is march this year.
However, to the point:
I agree that 4v4 balance is bad and that it probably worsened since march (from about 55 to 58-59% axis wins), I am reluctant though to blame only the balance team for it. If you look at the chosen commanders, you see a clear pattern: Ost, OKW and Soviets have a decent selection of commanders. UKF and USF however choose commanders with artillery or strong offmaps. This however is mostly Relics fault. They designed those factions shittily and probably did not allow core changes is that regard. Arty is crucial especially in 4v4. Both Axis factions have them stock, allowing them to get commanders to what they need. 2 out of 3 Allied factions don't, you pick the commander to cover your bare necessities rather than getting an actual strength.
I am not saying that the balance team did not make mistakes. Scott changes in my eyes were bad, the Scott should have been the late game arty replacement. USF AT changes were not fundamental enough either, leaving the faction not in any broken state, but just a boring one regarding AT.
Brita were... Well, to be honest I think without adding units this faction is beyond repair. In my eyes, the team did well with what they had, even if it is still unsatisfactory
Yes, you are absolutely right. This website only got released very recently. But I can clearly remember there was a predecessor. And there are for sure people in this forum posting data each year from ... nowhere, actually. Though I can't provide direct evidence here, there is one thing I am sure about. Because the data I mentioned before showed by somebody else presented such a contractive and almost laughable pattern, late last year, around December, I was planning on writing a thread about how difficult it is to balance around 4v4 and 1v1 with only one set of data( If you have tried making mod before, you would know that the original campaign and multiplayer actually got balanced differently). I was a strong promoter for splitting the game in half and balance each independently( 1v1 & 2v2; 3v3 & 4v4). At least, until then, I was trying to help the balance team out and explain to the public that it was just utterly impossible to balance around all game modes. In the end, I did not finish what I wrote because somebody in my family passed away in mid-December. |
By not making game shitty to begin with. You missed my original post completly. CoH2 was shit from the beggining, it wasnt balaced on release, nor its completly balanced now.
For sure you cant balance the game across the gamemodes if your base game is unbalanced crap with shity designed factions to begin with.
CoH2 balance problems are not problems of wrong stats, coh2 balance problems comes from the rotten core of the game. If the CoH3 will be able to create good designed factions and the problems of the balance wont be based around "Well shit faction X need full rewamp in order to be playable" then there wont be any problem balancing game for all the gamemodes.
Also again, relic have nothing to do with coh2 balancing and it was impossible to balance coh2 around 4v4 at this point. Balance team chose to balance game around 1v1, just because there was no other options.
I think we have both missed some of the points we already said. I am not directly replying to your post because I have addressed almost all the issues previously.
Regardless, if you have faith in the CoH 3 balance, great, the team needs someone who would support it. After so many years of strong faith, hoping Relic would release a new game to fix the old issue, I always find myself disappointed. |
This is lie, people asked for something simular to DoW-1 with elements from DoW-2. Both games have\had their player bases, while community was saying that DoW3 is gonna be shit the second Relic showed the gameplay. But it again was the case of "Managers at relic knows better then the community" and the game floped.
Thing is, alpha of CoH3 was nothing more then a "concept demo", meaning that litteraly nothing is ready like at all. Its an models\textures\asset mix without any finished content. Meaning that relic can collect feed back before factions are designed, before the balance is made, before mechanics are finished. This wasnt the case for vCoH\CoH2\DoW2\DoW3\AOE4
Thats the whole point.
Cant comment on that. I can only say that AoE2 has massive community and I'm not really sure that AoE4 would be so good it will force people to play it, rather then AoE2 since its a polished classic.
I am not trying to argue with you. And you don't have to post any comments behind this.
I have never mentioned anything about CoH3 pre-alpha. What I am mad about is that John posted that comment right after the release of the June patch. I believe the timing was unintentional, but how the heck are they going to fix all the balance issues if the CoH 2 balance team indeed did sacrifice the balance of 4v4 to achieve a more balancing 1v1. 4v4 balance was not that bad a year ago. Axis had a slight lead in win rate but was not over 55%(top 200), same as the Allies did in 1v1, which instead had an advantage. The patch released earlier this year has already brought the win rate for the Axis around 60%(in 4v4). I was hoping the June patch could fix some of the issues, but it only worsened the situation. And then Relic is telling me they are hiring people from the community, which I assume are those belonging to the current CoH 2 balance team, to assist the balance in CoH3. Oh boy, I can't imagine how bad it will become. |
I really hate when people just jump into some delusional statements without even basic understanding of the situation.
No offence but your post is wrong on so many levels, that its pointless to even wright everything.
Here is basic keypoints:
1) CoH2 from the release had problem with the balance because game was unfinished.
2) Whole strategic point system in coh2 was bad from the beggining, suitable only for 1v1\2v2 play.
3) All factions exept Wehr and Sov are designed like dog shit, from the beggining they were made unbalanced.
4) Relic had really shitty balance team behind coh2, which to put it lightly didnt even care about what community said regarding balance. If they thought something is good\balanced, even if its clearly not final word was on relic side.
5) During its life time, game had pretty much complete overhauls of few key systems. Like fire damage, tanks damage, inf damage and so on. In other words game was shiped with broken and unpolished mechanics.
6) During alpha tests of WFA and UKF Relic didnt even care about players feedback during the development, releasing 3 idiotic factions, which always are either too strong or too weak.
7) After half of the coh2 life time, relic said "fuck it" and abbandoned the ship, stopping any official support leaving all their fuck ups on the community balance team and still forcing restrictions on them.
Its a miracle that CoH2 even survived and was somewhat brought to the quality it has right now.
There is not a single reason to even bring CoH2 into a considiration or compare something from CoH2 when speaking about CoH3.
Because you are comparing mess of the game which whole lifespan could be discribed as a "try to cover all the holes" with a brand new game, developers of which are clearly listening to the community feedback now.
Dude, I was not even trying to post something that contains multiple levels. But, if you say so, fine.
Here is the thing, before they released Dawn of War III, they also claimed they had shaped the game base on the fans' requests. And see what kind of trash they have pumped out. Also, for AoE 4, they have claimed the same things. One of my friends, who have spent thousands of hours on AoE 2, said that the game is still far from satisfactory, at least based on the trailers.
I was not expecting the game( CoH3) is going to be balanced around ALL game modes until they say so. And, regardless of what, they should not claim anything that is nearly impossible to achieve so. I don't know how many credits Relic remains in your mind, at least for me and all of my friends, they are no better than EA. |
i hear you, but frankly i don't think they leave the larger team modes in the dust on purpose or out of willful ignorance. at least for coh2 a lot of the difficulties in balancing all factions across all different game modes stems from the lack of proper means and conceptual limitations, such as the rigid resource system or incomplete faction rosters. i'm sure coh3 will see major improvements on that front, but we'll see.
in any case, having some community members on board should imho be seen as a very positive sign that balance for the whole playerbase is taken seriously - not the other way around.
Let's hope miracles do happen. But so far, I see no hope. Especially since John posted that message not far from they released the June patch. |
Hey just to clear some talking points up, you're worried about coh3 balance based on the coh2 balance team because they said they brought some members of the community in yes? If that's the case, it's quite probable that one of the balance team members is currently contributing to coh3 balance.
Nothing against the balance team or relic, but if we compare now to coh2 launch state, I'd take now. 3s and 4s currently axis is significantly easier to play but i'd wager it's pretty difficult to balance multiple gamemodes with an overseer essentially approving and denying what can be changed.
You are correct. We are at a far better stage than what we had when the game was launched. I have made balance mods before, and I know how stupidly hard it is to balance around all game modes. And I believe the guys in the balance team have the same experiences.
But, since Relic claims they are going to balance ALL game modes for ALL players, they should, regardless of what, do so. I don't care if they are going to split the game apart and balance each one independently.
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i disagree. the community balance team has done a decent job so far, considering the constraints they had to deal with, and hiring someone from the team goes to show that relic is willing to learn from their past mistakes. that alone gives me hope that the chaotic mess that was coh2 at launch won't repeat itself.
as for the good ol' 1v1 vs 4v4 balance discussion: while i do agree the game should be balanced across all game modes, 1v1 should (and always will) have priority. because, let's face it, this and maybe 2v2 is where the game is truly competitive and where it matters most.
I am not here to argue if one mode is more competitive than the other. Since relic said, they are going to balance the game for ALL players and ALL game modes. They should, regardless of what, at least for a bit, achieve so.
You are correct. We are at a far better stage than what we had when the game was launched. But some game modes are still, indeed, imbalanced, and somehow they think they would just work it out in CoH 3 and claim that they will not ignore anyone. Give me a break. |
Roughly a month ago, someone on the official forum posted a thread( https://community.companyofheroes.com/coh-franchise/company-of-heroes-3/forums/1-general-discussion/threads/1429-please-do-away-with-second-class-players-for-coh-3?page=2) complaining the official balance team may ignore the balance of 4v4 and only focus on the 1v1. Days later, John from Relic's team posted this as a response.
But, take a look at what the latest patch for COH 2 has done. (Date is taken from https://coh2stats.com/stats?range=month&statsSource=top200&type=4v4&race=wermacht&timeStamp=1625097600, July 2021)
1v1, all players
1v1, top 200
4v4, all players
4v4, top 200
Since they said they had hired someone from the community to help them balance the game, I am seriously concerned if this is what they got. I am not going to preorder COH3 unless they can show what they said they would provide.
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