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Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback18 Apr 2021, 07:07 AM Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 23:03 PMMr. Someguy Fallschirmjagers. Fall are not greatly designed either but their are allot differences: They are not mainline infatry They do not have snares They DPS is not concentrated so they lose allot of DPS when they lose a model .... Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 23:03 PMMr. Someguy That's just the Jaeger Command Squad. Yes that would the base but of course it would have to be toned and not limited to one. The unit is weird to begin with since it does not really have any abilities that fit a "command" unit and the limitation of 1 has more to with power level than its abilities. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback17 Apr 2021, 17:40 PM Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 16:25 PMMr. Someguy ... TL;DR G43 was nerfed years ago for being too powerful, but is now too weak due to power creep, so partially revert part of the nerf and allow the use of the G43 and MG 42 at the same time again. ....] That would be a terrible idea because you have a squad with good DPS are all range. A simply solution at this point would be to replace the upgrade with a 5 men squad doctrinal squad. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - British Feedback16 Apr 2021, 18:01 PM Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 17:55 PMJibberJabberJobber Ok, and? It shoots bursts of flame less often = less opportunity to do DOT as well. Point stands it's better to debuff a cheap AEC than an expensive Croc. Only debuffing the flamethrower sounds good on paper, but in reality it's its main damage dealer against infantry and you end up with a slow command vehicle that already has a limited aura radius anyway, so you can't get as much value out of it. AEC might be a better option if one has unlock it and has build one and wants to combine with AT units. One can also use the durable Croc as a command vehicle (that suffer less from de-buffs than most other units) and have any additional fire power one needs from other units infatry and vehicles. I simply a different way of using the Command vehicle. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback16 Apr 2021, 17:38 PM Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 17:19 PMthedarkarmadillo Jump back to quoted post15 Apr 2021, 18:42 PMthedarkarmadillo ....The other smg elite infantry has armour so in the context of the soviet faction AG guards are actually squishy. ... I never disagreed with your point, I was giving credence to people saying they are underwhelminyes this is exactly what I mean. yes you have disagreed with my point. Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 17:19 PMthedarkarmadillo PARAS bring a lot more to the faction than AG bring to theirs. Rangers are OFTEN regarded as underwhelming BECAUSE like AG they don't bring anything exciting. They are not weak, but they are underwhelming and uninteresting AG bring Thompson a mid range smg/Elite bazookas/grenades assault none of these items are available to other Soviet units Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 17:19 PMthedarkarmadillo Soviet don't lack for firepower. One will get AG Likley for the zooks, as if they want an assault squad they have many options AG are not an assault squad similar to shock they have mid DPS. AG bring more fire power than Conscripts. Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 17:19 PMthedarkarmadillo I'm not theory crafting at all. I'm saying that you can't compare them to a unit from a different faction ad say they are fine to dispel others complaints about them. Their attractiveness doesn't care how USF paras operate, it depends on what they bring to the soviet faction. It's relative to them alone When some one claims that: "They could really use a small buff to make them more viable, especially against tanks." I am simply pointing that they are as viable as AT paras. Now if you want to call that comparison or not is your issue. My point that is nothing to indicated they are not viable vs tanks because both Paras and AG are facing the same PzIV. Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 17:19 PMthedarkarmadillo they are equally weighted against the other units the faction has at their disposal and being doctrinal they are being pitted against other soviet elite infantry in regards to attraction. Look at it this way: Both axis factions have panthers. Identical units costing the same. If one was to introduce a doctrinal Panther for both factions that has 4 levels of vet for ost it would be an improvement and Likley be more expensive, but for OKW it would be a worse Panther and Likley be cheaper. How the unit interacts withing the faction is important as it takes factional subtlies into account. A 6 man squad to literally everyone but soviet is impressive, for soviet its standard. Tank with 200 armour for usf is durable, but for okw it's weak. The game balance is diverse and unit efficiency is relative to the faction. With that in consideration I can see why some may feel that AG are underwhelming for the soviet. One size does not fit all and just because something is comparable to something in another faction doesn't mean it fits the bill for a different faction entirely with different stats and units and roles and costs. Only your argument work completely the opposite way, they are far more weighted as a Soviet unit unit because they bring something soviet do not actually have access to, handheld rocket. USF can have bazookas on RE they are not as good Paras bazookas but they are at least cost efficient. Soviet have access only to 1 shreck in 4 men squad in 2 bad commanders. The unit is not "Very squishy" and it is "viable vs tanks" to say the least regardless if it is "interesting" or not. Unless you want to argue they "Very squishy" or that they not "viable vs tanks" I have little to add. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback16 Apr 2021, 11:44 AM Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 10:32 AMKatitof Glad to see you finally agree that stug is more efficient and effective AT then SU-76. I am not sure why you think I "finally agree" since have posted this from the start. Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 09:17 AMVipper Stug is probably more efficient but that does not make it more cost efficient nor does it make SU-76 a bad TD. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback16 Apr 2021, 10:57 AM Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 10:39 AMHannibal Which is exactly what I said 6 posts ago: unless you regularly take pot shots with the SU76, the StuG is the overall better and more efficient choice. And once more being "more efficient" does not necessarily make it a more "cost efficient" choice which was my point all along. SU-76 delivers what it costs. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback16 Apr 2021, 10:27 AM Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 10:23 AMHannibal It is an indicator of how quickly you do damage before the enemy has to retreat as well. And if you want to pull out an extreme example with high reload like the Elefant: yes, alpha damage is very important. But the two units in question have similar ROF, so extreme cases do not apply here. Point here is that both stug/SU-76 can zone enemy tanks up to a point, SU-76 can do it while being cheaper and with less pop. In sort it might not be as powerful as the more expensive Stug but it is a cost efficient TD with the added utility of barraging enemy units. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback16 Apr 2021, 10:18 AM Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 10:17 AMHannibal Obviously there are quite some other factors. The Stug has to stand in ATG and TD range for the first shot, the SU only in ATG range. The resource ratio is a very bad indicator, because it assumes similar TTK. TTK is also a bad indicator on it own because it assumes that TD will kill the tank... If a PzIV get shot twice from SU-76 from range 60 it will probably back off (or risk a dive). In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback16 Apr 2021, 10:06 AM Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 09:33 AMHannibal Stug is more cost efficient AT. Assuming the TTK times as written above (7 and 5 shots vs medium for SU and Stug): Stug needs 21,5 s to kill an average Allied medium (326 MP, 103 FU), yielding 15,16 MP and 4,79 FU per second. SU needs 33,1 s to kill OST P4 -> 10,57 MP / 3,62 FU This gives StuG higher damage potential of +43% MP and +32% FU, while costing the same MP, +20% FU and +25% POP. This advantage still remains if you subtract 2 seconds of the SU TTK because of higher range. It equals out in the matchip against a T34 and improves vs Sherman and Cromwell. So unless you can regularly take a long range shot, the StuG is better. Not to mention that a close range StuG is still a threat. A close range SU is probably dead because the StuG comes with way better defensive stats. I'll say that this is a quite theoretical calculation since vehicle combat is all or nothing. But still, the StuG counters Allied resources more efficiently than the SU76. There are so many theoretical simplifications here to draw any safe conclusion (7 shots vs 5, slug fest, not having to rotate to fire,...). (The math you are using are also unclear) Cost efficient is simply difficult to quantify but if you want simpler approach the PzIV/SU-76 cost ratio is much batter than T-34/76/Stug and SU-76 can zone out the PzIV from longer range. If one want to attempt to dive a tank to kill the the one still risks more in the case of the PzIV to cause less bleed to the enemy. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback16 Apr 2021, 09:17 AM Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 09:16 AMHannibal Barrage ability aside (Stug has a stun shot), the StuG is more efficient. Only and really only in OST vs SOB matchups they are roughly equal at vet0, while the StuG improves at vet3. Stug is probably more efficient but that does not make it more cost efficient nor does it make SU-76 a bad TD. In: COH2 Balance