Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

TTK is also a bad indicator on it own because it assumes that TD will kill the tank...

It is an indicator of how quickly you do damage before the enemy has to retreat as well. And if you want to pull out an extreme example with high reload like the Elefant: yes, alpha damage is very important. But the two units in question have similar ROF, so extreme cases do not apply here.

It is an indicator of how quickly you do damage before the enemy has to retreat as well. And if you want to pull out an extreme example with high reload like the Elefant: yes, alpha damage is very important. But the two units in question have similar ROF, so extreme cases do not apply here.

Point here is that both stug/SU-76 can zone enemy tanks up to a point, SU-76 can do it while being cheaper and with less pop.

In sort it might not be as powerful as the more expensive Stug but it is a cost efficient TD with the added utility of barraging enemy units.

Point here is that both stug/SU-76 can zone enemy tanks up to a point, SU-76 can do it while being cheaper and with less pop.

In sort it might not be as powerful as the more expensive Stug but it is a cost efficient TD with the added utility of barraging enemy units.

Glad to see you finally agree that stug is more efficient and effective AT then SU-76.

Both quantitatively and qualitatively the StuG has been demonstrated to be the better choice. This is exactly what has been explained throughout the last page. Glad to read that we all finally agree that the Stug is better overall in both cost-effectiveness and overall effectiveness on the battlefield without derailing the thread. StuG 4 life!

Point here is that both stug/SU-76 can zone enemy tanks up to a point, SU-76 can do it while being cheaper and with less pop.

In sort it might not be as powerful as the more expensive Stug but it is a cost efficient TD with the added utility of barraging enemy units.

Which is exactly what I said 6 posts ago: unless you regularly take pot shots with the SU76, the StuG is the overall better and more efficient choice.

Which is exactly what I said 6 posts ago: unless you regularly take pot shots with the SU76, the StuG is the overall better and more efficient choice.

And once more being "more efficient" does not necessarily make it a more "cost efficient" choice which was my point all along.

SU-76 delivers what it costs.

No point really buying su-76 when you got an at gun who can do the same thing. Teching up and units on t4 is just too good, why take the risk of being outgunned, when you can just be a normie soviet player. Only use su-76 when way ahead and had the confidence to just end the game. Orstuff like never teching up to t4 in team games and ml20

Glad to see you finally agree that stug is more efficient and effective AT then SU-76.

I am not sure why you think I "finally agree" since have posted this from the start.

Stug is probably more efficient but that does not make it more cost efficient nor does it make SU-76 a bad TD.

Why more awkward? It comes 10 fuel earlier now.

Yeah, I messed up ;(

If you think it is terrible, make a point why it is bad.

It calculates how quickly they can shut down their targets based on target cost, their own coat und their own performance

Here is why this is bad.
What does it suppose to represent actually. It's not like they exert constant bleed that a rate figure has any value.

Here is why this is bad.
What does it suppose to represent actually. It's not like they exert constant bleed that a rate figure has any value.

It represents how quickly the unit is able to destroy resources in case the tank is destroyed.
And, in case we assume that T34/P4 are balanced towards their purchase cost (meaning price relates to performance), it gives an indication of how quickly the firepower can be killed or at least forced to retreat, i.e. taken out of the fight.
All respective to the cost of the TD.

I think the second assumption is fair. Mediums are in an okay spot in most game modes, at least in the smaller modes where you could see a stug and SU76.

Just to throw this out there as we're talking about the stug and su76 durability of the unit itself also plays a role. The su76 is exactly as durable as a light tank. Low armour and low health means that it has less margin for error.
The stug on the other hand can bounce a t34 frontally from point blank AND requires a whole extra hit to kill (compared to the su76. Then it also gets more durability with vet.

The problem with the su76 is that it's a glass cannon easily punished without any real decent scaling to validate taking that risk.

If at t4 the su76 got or could get a durability buff we may see some more usage. But for what more or less equates to a Puma with no turret and more pen but none of the survival traits or flexibility in engagement it will always fall off.

Also its vet 3 should bring its damage up to 160, not 140 as it effectively doesn't exist in any game scenario with 20 more damage.... It'll still take 3 shots to kill a flak track, 2to kill a panzer werfer.... It can't even punish LVs for christ sake...

The Jaeger Light Infantry is a victim of power creep, it was originally a counterpart to the Conscript Assault Package only it was better due to inferior DPS at close range but superior DPS at mid and long range. CAP was changed over time granting weaker but more numerous PPSh's while Conscripts eventually gained the 7th man, over time USF and UKF were released with their powerful mainline units which the G43 is less advantaged against; and severely disadvantaged when these units get their weapon upgrades.

I considered looking back to the past for inspiration, before the G43 was reigned in; perhaps some of this lost power could be used to fight the power creep. Long ago the Jaeger Light Infantry G43 gave bonuses against units in cover and could be paired with the MG 42 and Panzerschreck upgrades. While I know the Panzergrenadier version is currently okay, I was thinking allowing the G43 + MG 42 combination once more could prove useful these days. I would advocate for the accuracy bonus against cover, but it would have to be applied to all G43's which is likely not a good idea, especially for Panzergrenadiers, so it's best to leave that one go.

TL;DR G43 was nerfed years ago for being too powerful, but is now too weak due to power creep, so partially revert part of the nerf and allow the use of the G43 and MG 42 at the same time again.