Panzerbusche as AT weapon make very little sense in that late German army , it was used a grenade launcher thou (including AT grenades).
If one wanted to add an another anti tank option for axis infantry one could use P.Faust.
This could work as follows, the unit has only rifles equipped and the ability to equip with P.Faust when engaging armor, ability goes on cooldown after firing. P.Fuast do not cause engine damage (one could add a stun at close range to avoid being crushed) and are about bazooka level.
I think it makes as much sense as Panzergrenadiers blitzkrieging through the Soviet Union with Panzerschrecks in the early 40s, the Panzerschreck came into service in 43' I believe, along with the Pak 43 and Ferdinand/Elefant as well as the Panther, but seeing the current Ostheer it more reminds me of the 41/42 German Army rather than the 1943/1944 one.
Btw your Panzerbusche AT grenade launcher got me wondering if it's possible to make it fire AT grenades using the standard rifle animations as well as the grenade launcher one. |
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Practically the OKW is lacking good and reliable AT and the same could be said about their support weapons in general, some examples could be the Pak 40 as already mentioned, the StuG III that could act as a cheaper alternative to the JP4, the MG42 and GrW34, a dedicated AT squad and I would say the Tiger while not fitting in these categories again could fill a cheaper and earlier alternative role to the KT.
Thematically these don't fit in either of the currently reworked doctrines sadly so pushing them in for the sake of filling the gaps in the OKW's Army design isn't something that I would imagine them doing.
I think that intentionally handicapping Armies and then putting the much needed units in doctrines (and especially paid ones/hard to get or earn such) is a bad design in general, I mean we saw it with the OKW and USF, the OKW got their MG34 by default instead of it being in either Fortifications and Luftwaffe and the USF got their mortar, now the Brits are getting snares but I still think that they should still get a mobile mortar as well while also keeping the mortar pit as a garrisonable emplacement for the mortars.
So in hindsight these 3 Armies would then all have needed tools, but the problems for the lack of practicality of the OKW support weapons, weird tech structure for the USF and expensiveness/uniqueness of the UKF would still persist, even if it doesn't sound as good as it could have been had these all been designed like the Ost and Sovs right from the get-go so they would all be at the same time on an even playfield but unique in their own way.
Like with the OKW and Ost's tank line up basically, Panzer IVs and Panthers are available to both Armies but they play differently to each other. |
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I see some pretty good suggestions for the Panzerfusiliers here.
Here's my own idea of a versatile infantry unit at 0CP -
6 Men, all initially armed with K98k rifles.
All of their abilities will be locked behind one of the HQ Trucks being setup so being 0CP won't be so problematic balance wise.
After which I have an idea for their upgrades which may or may not be locked behind tech as well depending on how balanced it might be.
Their current G43 package coupled with flares, so basically transforming them into a Scout/Recon squad.
A double Panzerbusche AT Rifle/Single Panzershreck AT upgrade, also gives them access to HEAT/AT grenades?
Panzer Support package, similar to the Squad Leaders in German Infantry giving Panzergrenadiers a repair ability, something like combined arms and mark target, albeit instead for the PFs.
They'll basically be an alternative but doctrinal and more expensive mainline infantry replacement for the Volks that could be tailored to a variety of specializations depending on the situation at hand. |
in my experience the lead designer or leader from a part doesnt really effect the future from a projekt. important are the developers which bring their heart to the projects.
the head of a office is only there to divide and rule.
You mind me asking what your experience is exactly?
Cause I'm an electrician and if we don't do what the boss wants exactly we have to re-do it to his specs or else we don't get paid, so while your free spirited development sounds good on paper in reality whoever pays gets to have the final word in something, not whoever is actually doing it. |
I partly agree with dow 3, but where do you see MOBA in coh 2?
Take out the Moba part and you have CoH2 basically.
They never really tried to go hardcore competitive and even e-sports with CoH and that's why I think the game was better designed, better balanced and more fun, at least to me. |
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People come and go, that's the norm for.
No need to make a fuss about it, the important thing is for Relic to just find what made their first 2 games, Dawn of War and Company of Heroes great, and just get back on track of that same innovation and fun, dark, gritty and immersive gameplay design instead of... cartoony, bright colored and censored MOBA competitive mish-mashes that try to be a little bit of everything but fail at anything. I also think that they should provide better modding tools to their communities and most importantly fans. Company of Heroes is a fine game but it's 11 years old and mods certainly help keep the playerbase around for sure. |
The main focus seems making the commanders "thematically fitting"
The synergy in revamped commanders seems to be mods last concern honestly, just like they don't really care about keeping """non basic""" units (anything that isn't mainline, mediums, TD, mortar, mg and a few light vehicles...so basically any unit that isn't included in the straightforward cross-faction build order) viable in balance patches.
I mean, can someone really give me a solid reason that explains why we need Stormtroopers in a doctrine that grants Panzergrens with passive and offensive buffs for 30 munitions ?
What is supposed to be the purpose of a doctrinal at gun with ai ability IN THE ONLY SINGLE FACTION that gets the only non doc at gun with an ai ability ?
What is supposed to be the point of m3 halftrack when wc51 can now capture, mount a buffed 50 cal, transport troops, use mark target and drop heavy arty in THE ONLY faction THAT HAS ALREADY a mobile NON DOC reinforce and heal truck ?
It's flawed, and the fact that we have a doctrine that has been in the revamp patch II times only proves it.
I can't comment on behalf of anyone else but I've personally always tried to design things to be both "thematically fitting" as you said and practical at the same time.
For example my idea of the Urban Assault Panzergrenadiers (who could be upgraded with flamethrowers giving an alternative option to the 250 with flame projectors) in the 250 Halftrack is the practical part of my suggestion while the Antenna upgrade is the "thematically fitting" part, with which I honestly see no problem with, it does it's job practically while still fitting into the doctrine's overall theme. |
Well, i think it would be worth a test to give "overwatch" the 223 instead of "early warning". That would be a nice buff but the radio car need some adjustments too. It was only build in only 1 game (Theodosios). I think it should come out earlier to make a difference in combat. My suggestion would be to make it a CP1 /CP2 call-in. The upgrade could be more expensive then. And it should definitely give your teammates resources too.
If you wanna make the 223 a unique unit for a certain commander, then we could talk about moving the 223 to "Overwatch" (replaces Early warning) and giving Elite armor the new 251 (maybe with Pzgrens).
That works too.
The problem is keeping the radio ability which the 223 replaces in Elite Armor.
But apart from that yeah, Panzergrenadiers or Panzerfusiliers in either a 250 or 251 works, but if it's the 251 I think it's a better option for it to come open-topped because I don't believe they'll give it the same flame projector upgrade.
Edit: Maybe an Urban Assault Panzergrenadier squad in a 250 that can upgrade with an antenna to receive the radio ability combat group and then the 223 can be moved to Overwatch. |
250 ht still feels underwhelming and not worth over hellfire 251.
It's suppression may be useful but an MG42 is still a much better choice that can retreat and can't be countered by atg.
-KEEP the changes to all ht doctrine but replace the 250 with another unit or ability. 250ht would be a valuable addition to OKW since they lack a proper infantry transport and a powerful suppression platform (no, opel truck is a joke)
That's the reason why I suggested it for Overwatch doctrine, albeit with an upgrade to an Antenna as well, like the 223, so it can fill in a Recon role to fit in better with the commander, but even without it I think it would still be useful like you said. The Jaegers coming in it could easily be turned into a combat group or something. |
Overwatch indeed needs a serious rework because its still MEH. I'd be very disappointed if after this commander revamp (awesome btw, nice job) we still have this as a never used commander. I think this commander could be fixed turning it into a defensive doc.
Problems with commander are:
-Lefh needs to be replaced with different thing.
-Goliath are still a troll unit not worth it besides a lucky shot (or if you are not vonIvan). I can't barely see a solution between goliaths been UP or OP. So perhaps best idea (as some people said) is make them come with an ability (tellers to sturms).
-For the father land its a bit meh too plus its a munition cost ability to a commander (if changed and according to the suggestions AT Strafe, tellers...) gonna be heavily muni based. Dunno how to aproach the change to be honest buff it or change to a new passive ability.
-Jaeger light infantry its still too weak. I'd lower it to 1CP or require a tech estructure (medic or mech truck) so you can get use of if it earlier.
Fortifications is already the OKW's Defensive Doctrine, if this is turned into another version the same complaints about the Ostheer Defensive doctrine will arise that they're too similar to each other, but the problem for the OKW is that it's limited in terms of options because of it's 8 commanders (soon to be 9) compared to the Ostheer's 18/19.
Plus it already has the theme of a "Recon" sort of doctrine, I'd say just go with that. But instead of turning it into the German counterpart of the USF Recon Company base it off of the German "Aufklärungsabteilung" or in English, Recon detachment which every Panzer Division had.
It was lightly armed/equipped, fast and mobile. That's the idea behind the Jagers I think, being Recon infantry, and my suggestion of the 223/250 with Radio antennas is there to help them out with that.
My other idea was to give the ability to the sWS-s to pack up and move to put emphasis of the mobility and speed of the light Recon detachment. The Radio officer I also mentioned is another thing that would probably make a good replacement of the LeFH. |
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