Vipper, can you please not turn every thread into a Penals rant? I enjoy reading threads about my favourite faction and my favourite Panzergrens units, but then it feels like you're steamrolling with Penals rant in every thread.
- no access to MG
- no access to AT-gun
- no access to indirect fire
- no access to effective AT
Those are problems of the building not Penals
At least explain, don't shut down discussions because you're wrong and blvckdream made a few valid points that challenge your point of view. Honestly, that's probably the densest reply I have ever read in this forum. Especially even worse since you asked the poor fella about it. |
Ah the good old time when you could seal the game with a single stuart. Funny enough OP had a different vision on this matter at that time.
Haha, you're so right. I remember now the sounds of the Stuart rolling through the fow gently towards my troops announcing its upcoming doom. If played well there was nothing one could have done but suffer a slow death. I probably got ptsd from that. OP is wrong about the subject, the game had massive balance and timing issues with their vehicles and its costs. Roo' spam was brutal too. |
...which is firing at tanks from heavy cover or garrisons for AT infantry.
... for +40 seconds? With no other play, units, movements, abilities or else the game offers? I don't think so. You might play like that, but I do not. I prefer exciting and fun plays with impressive and fun engagements. |
|
Exactly, and these vacuum tests don't use the units' strengths at its best either, as you clearly point out. Nobody in a normal game would have a situation like that of 40 seconds of exchanging shots (of course exceptions like testing, trolling, or unsure how to use the unit, or new player, and so on). Units are usually attempted to be used at their best in a match-up. These vacuum tests are just hints to what the balance is like in vacuum situations, not proper games, and definitely not "proof" that you insist on clinging on. It helps to get an idea, but they're definitely not "proof" of balance. |
|
Yeah, and they all do better and most importantly quicker. Not sure why you insist on wanting me to "proof" you wrong when you think it's totally OK for a normal game situation for a P4 to stand still and shoot at AT squads in green cover for 40 seconds counting.. |
People usually bring proof to discussions to back up their arguments.
If you insist on bringing proof that it is considered as "good" then you should also bring "proof" that actually validates what is "good" for that particular scenario. That's ground truth reasoning, look it up. But since we can't bring ground truth to what is "good", all we can bring is just discussions to what one thinks. All that stands here now is that you think it's good because it takes 40 seconds from green cover, where I think it's bad because it takes 40 seconds. Right now, there are other AT squads doing a much better job and quicker than 40 seconds, that could taken as ground truth, but the game is utterly assymetrical, so that can be taken out of the window. Penals and SOV are being butchered because there are loud noises in the forum repeating SOV and penals are OP. |
prove me wrong
No, I don't have to "prove" you wrong because I disagree with you. It's a discussion, not a tribunal about who is in the right or who is in the wrong. I said above that if you think 40 seconds of shooting from green with no other play is OK as AT, that's your point, not mine. I think that 40 seconds of shooting and still losing is a sign that it needs a buff especially for that kind of unit. |
|
If 40 seconds of standing still and shooting from green cover at a medium and still losing the fight against the medium and squad are considered OK that's your point of view, not mine. From my perspective, the video emphasises how bad they are and with a need of a buff. Even other squads like RE zook do a better job, and they're cheaper overall. All else is just looking at sentence schematics and taken outside of its paragraph context. I even said, " They might not proper counter them..". Vipper suggested to remove PTRS, I refuse that idea, but at least she says they don't work either. We are both in agreement that a buff them than removing them from the game. |
I suggest you go and see what happens when a 3x PTRS Penal squad behind heavy cover goes up against a P4.
Spoilers:
https://youtu.be/P_G_TbdbGHs?t=757
Yeah, green cover, 40 seconds of shooting, no other play or movement but vacuum tests. I've seen the video before, it's informative for the current state of mod, but not a warrant on balance. My point still stands. |
Then inform the MOD team and not me and tell them to remove the 3 PTRS because it does not work.
You're right; in the modded game, PTRS don't work at all to counter medium. I would not remove them as you suggest. They might not proper counter them but I would prefer a buff than removing them. Overall penals deserve a buff, they don't work at all, you're right on that. It'd be cool for SOV to have proper PTRS instead of stuff that barely scratches my P4. |
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
보드카 중대 
VonManteuffel 
Heartless Jäger 
