The time factor

Honestly vipper, is this all about mobilize reserves considering its your prime example in your opening post?

I just dont know where you plan to go or what changes will be made with all this posting at this point.

Honestly vipper, is this all about mobilize reserves considering its your prime example in your opening post?

I just dont know where you plan or what changes will be made with all this posting at this point.

It about asking people their opinion.

The mod team seem to have chosen a direction where all faction have more linear teching, making final tier disable ASAP and make access to all unit for all faction easier.

Imo people should provide their feedback and say if the like this direction or not and why.

It about asking people their opinion.

Ill just say this, its dosent look like your asking them their opinion.

May have been the intention but it has gone out of hand.

In call-in meta days you could stay on T2, call in your first T34/85, order it to attack vehicles only and reverse it into a PAK40, and you wouldn't even be in a losing position against an equal opponent who picked a non-call-in commander.

Players didn't have more choice back then than they do now. In fact now they have a lot more since no doctrine auto-wins vs other doctrines anymore.

Ill just say this, its dosent look like your asking them their opinion.

May have been the intention but it has gone out of hand.

The help me in bring the thread back on truck by providing your own opinion on the matter.

In you opinion making changes that help player reach their final tier faster and (back teching in necessary) will improve the game or not and why.

In call-in meta days you could stay on T2, call in your first T34/85, order it to attack vehicles only and reverse it into a PAK40, and you wouldn't even be in a losing position against an equal opponent who picked a non-call-in commander.

Players didn't have more choice back then than they do now. In fact now they have a lot more since no doctrine auto-wins vs other doctrines anymore.

And as I have many times already having main battle tank available without tech was bad for the game.

I have read the whole thread, and in all honesty, what's the intention of it? It feels more like a rant than a discussion, and OP is actively avoiding any points made by anyone who posted and disagrees with OP. Other people's posts and concerns were really well put across, and just binned by OP as it challenges their point of view. Also, other people pointed that out too, so it's not just my personal feeling. The threads reads a bit like a blog, with plenty of points and rants that are just plain wrong and OP not seeing the many parts, which were pointed out, that OP is wrong.

What do you want to achieve with this thread at this point? Is it just nerf Soviets but packed in colourful wrappings?

The help me in bring the thread back on truck by providing your own opinion on the matter.

In you opinion making changes that help player reach their final tier faster and (back teching in necessary) will improve the game or not and why.

No, best to leave it and move on.

What do you want to achieve with this thread at this point? Is it just nerf Soviets but packed in colourful wrappings?

Comes across that way but again, Its really best to leave this thread at this point.

A slower pace requires deeper options on each tier or global upgrades costing fuel but acting as side tiering option. But the idea of slowing the game pace for the sake of it doesn't make sense.

If we take Coh1 as example of slow pace early game, that's essentially because USF had BARs upgrade as a kind of side tier option upgrade or the player could tech to rush the M8. Both option were viable but one give the illusion of slower game pace since it delays the tech. The wehrm had a similar idea with or spending fuel early on tech to rush the PUMA or spending some on veterancy for your grens.

I think the illusion of coh1 being a slow pacing game also come from the fact that generalist tanks are really hard to get working properly - you always better invest on tank destroyer for the armour fighting and mostly focus on infantry play all the game length.
Coh2 is different, a single Pz4/sherman/t34/cromw can turn the tide of the game in a matter of seconds so you need to have yours asap.

Pls stop you silly crusade of disagreeing with anything and everything I post derailing all thread in process.

You could, ofcourse, just ignore his comments? I get the feeling most of the forum does that.

A slower pace requires deeper options on each tier or global upgrades costing fuel but acting as side tiering option. But the idea of slowing the game pace for the sake of it doesn't make sense.

If we take Coh1 as example of slow pace early game, that's essentially because USF had BARs upgrade as a kind of side tier option upgrade or the player could tech to rush the M8. Both option were viable but one give the illusion of slower game pace since it delays the tech. The wehrm had a similar idea with or spending fuel early on tech to rush the PUMA or spending some on veterancy for your grens.

I think the illusion of coh1 being a slow pacing game also come from the fact that generalist tanks are really hard to get working properly - you always better invest on tank destroyer for the armour fighting and mostly focus on infantry play all the game length.
Coh2 is different, a single Pz4/sherman/t34/cromw can turn the tide of the game in a matter of seconds so you need to have yours asap.

Coh1 had allot less fuel available and on average less tanks where used.

Imo the game would be more interesting if one had to make decision about tech.

For instance if one had to evaluate to the situation chose between building a SU-76 or going for T4.

Coh1 had allot less fuel available and on average less tanks where used.

CoH1 had heavies for ZERO fuel as well as dual panthers for ZERO fuel.
Sherman has a cost of 90 fuel.
CoH1 had less fuel, because vehicles had no fuel cost at all or much lower fuel cost then CoH2.
Less tanks were used?
Are you even aware of roo spam, tetrarch lil john spam or hotchkiss spam? You could easily get roo after roo without end and get 6-8 of the latter two and it wasn't infrequent sight.

Imo the game would be more interesting if one had to make decision about tech.

Too bad, shouldn't have complained about all the units before late game for ability to end the game.
Without being able to end the game with early game units, there is no reason to stay in early game longer.
There is no decision, because players hated that and asked for removal of it, the trend continues right now with further T-70 nerfs for example.

For instance if one had to evaluate to the situation chose between building a SU-76 or going for T4.

There was a time when it was a viable choice, then the unit got nerfed into irrelevance.
It happened for every single light or early unit of every single of the 5 factions, removing any choice other then "go for meds asap and get only what's absolutely needed to survive until that".
Why are you completely ignorant to that little fact?

Sorry, but you can't have any decision making between staying low or teching when you kill potential of early game units to seal the game and nothing will change that unless you're willing to get these units back to the "op" times.

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There was a time when it was a viable choice, then the unit got nerfed into irrelevance.
It happened for every single light or early unit of every single of the 5 factions, removing any choice other then "go for meds asap and get only what's absolutely needed to survive until that".
Why are you completely ignorant to that little fact?

Sorry, but you can't have any decision making between staying low or teching when you kill potential of early game units to seal the game and nothing will change that unless you're willing to get these units back to the "op" times.

OK this simply show how completely messed up you are.

You suggest something and when I suggest the exact same I am " completely ignorant to that little fact"

I'd rather focus on encouraging the use of other T3 units instead of more T4 med rushing.
20 extra health for M5 at vet3 would go a long way as it arrives already when AT is abundant, it would do nothing vs dual shrecks or puma, but would be of tremendous help vs ATGs, SU-76 is being addressed, 7th man might not even need a change anymore if PTRS AT in mid/late game issue will be solved and M5+7th man could become a valid T-70 alternative leaving the decision to either go for T4 or pick SU-76 depending on situation.

This is irrefutable proof that what ever I post you post exact opposite even when you agree.

Now that truth is out pls stop your nonconstructive game.

CoH1 had heavies for ZERO fuel as well as dual panthers for ZERO fuel.
Sherman has a cost of 90 fuel.
CoH1 had less fuel, because vehicles had no fuel cost at all or much lower fuel cost then CoH2.
Less tanks were used?
Are you even aware of roo spam, tetrarch lil john spam or hotchkiss spam? You could easily get roo after roo without end and get 6-8 of the latter two and it wasn't infrequent sight.


Too bad, shouldn't have complained about all the units before late game for ability to end the game.
Without being able to end the game with early game units, there is no reason to stay in early game longer.
There is no decision, because players hated that and asked for removal of it, the trend continues right now with further T-70 nerfs for example.


There was a time when it was a viable choice, then the unit got nerfed into irrelevance.
It happened for every single light or early unit of every single of the 5 factions, removing any choice other then "go for meds asap and get only what's absolutely needed to survive until that".
Why are you completely ignorant to that little fact?

Sorry, but you can't have any decision making between staying low or teching when you kill potential of early game units to seal the game and nothing will change that unless you're willing to get these units back to the "op" times.

Ah the good old time when you could seal the game with a single stuart. Funny enough OP had a different vision on this matter at that time.

Ah the good old time when you could seal the game with a single stuart. Funny enough OP had a different vision on this matter at that time.

Even funnier how Sander93 agree with OP about COH1

I can only speak for myself but I think the incentive has always been there. It is a result from Relic's core design decisions, mostly the economy system. Unlike vCoH, CoH2 has an abundance of fuel because of the standard territory points which greatly speeds up the different phases. This is amplified in team games. ...

Ah the good old time when you could seal the game with a single stuart. Funny enough OP had a different vision on this matter at that time.

Haha, you're so right. I remember now the sounds of the Stuart rolling through the fow gently towards my troops announcing its upcoming doom. If played well there was nothing one could have done but suffer a slow death. I probably got ptsd from that. OP is wrong about the subject, the game had massive balance and timing issues with their vehicles and its costs. Roo' spam was brutal too.

Even funnier how Sander93 agree with OP about COH1

Except he didn't said what you think he did...

CoH1 had as much fuel.
Difference is in distribution of fuel over the map, CoH1 had designated fuel points, in coh2 everything except muni point gives fuel.

If you were able to hold map control, fuel wasn't an issue at all.
In fact, you needed LESS map control for the same fuel income relatively to CoH2, because you had to focus on a tiny bit of the map with dedicated fuel.

Building caches was also much more frequent in CoH1 as they were used across all game modes and skill levels.

You could easier harass opponents fuel, but it was also much easier to get to maximum income efficiency and to keep it that way.