[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

Since PTRS penal battalion are now designed as other AT squads and can counter mediums they should come in line with other AT squads and lose their AT snare and have reduced AI power.

Since PTRS penal battalion are now designed as other AT squads and can counter mediums they should come in line with other AT squads and lose their AT snare and have reduced AI power.

Penals do not counter mediums.

The difference between AT Penals and schrecks is the same as between normal zooks and shrecks, but worse. The PTRS does sustain damage over time. So the enemy tank can still shoot back. Zooks do that too, mostly because they can't reliably pen mediums and hit less hard.

Schrecks have massive alpha strike damage with better pen than either, so your vulnerable period is... the time to close for snap shot plus the time it take Hans to get his head out of his ass. Then the unit can retreat and hide. It takes consistently 6 schrecks to kill a medium, over 8 zooks, and at least 8 full firing cycles fir the new PTRS troops. And they have to do that while being shot at.

PTRS takes 2 seconds to fire from cold, schrecks are 1.26 seconds.

The vulerability periods are.... just not even close.

Lets not even get into Asymmetry, expecting Soviets to have a snareless build (I played pre-engie snare Brits. That sucked), and dealing with dedicated AI tanks.

Oh, and heavy tanks...

And rifles keep their snare with zooks, as do Ro.E

Penals do not counter mediums.

Then inform the MOD team and not me and tell them to remove the 3 PTRS because it does not work.

Show Spoiler

PTRS takes 2 seconds to fire from cold, schrecks are 1.26 seconds.

Show Spoiler

In the mode the fire faster:
Ready-aim time from 1.25 to 0.5

Then inform the MOD team and not me and tell them to remove the 3 PTRS because it does not work.

So you are saying that you support further PTRS buffs?

Then inform the MOD team and not me and tell them to remove the 3 PTRS because it does not work.

You're right; in the modded game, PTRS don't work at all to counter medium. I would not remove them as you suggest. They might not proper counter them but I would prefer a buff than removing them. Overall penals deserve a buff, they don't work at all, you're right on that. It'd be cool for SOV to have proper PTRS instead of stuff that barely scratches my P4.

You're right; in the modded game, PTRS don't work at all to counter medium.

I suggest you go and see what happens when a 3x PTRS Penal squad behind heavy cover goes up against a P4.

Spoilers:
https://youtu.be/P_G_TbdbGHs?t=757

I suggest you go and see what happens when a 3x PTRS Penal squad behind heavy cover goes up against a P4.

Spoilers:
https://youtu.be/P_G_TbdbGHs?t=757

Yeah, green cover, 40 seconds of shooting, no other play or movement but vacuum tests. I've seen the video before, it's informative for the current state of mod, but not a warrant on balance. My point still stands.

Your point that 3x PTRS Penals can't fight mediums at all still stands after seeing how they can seriously damage or even win against a P4 if you use them right? Well okay then.

If 40 seconds of standing still and shooting from green cover at a medium and still losing the fight against the medium and squad are considered OK that's your point of view, not mine. From my perspective, the video emphasises how bad they are and with a need of a buff. Even other squads like RE zook do a better job, and they're cheaper overall. All else is just looking at sentence schematics and taken outside of its paragraph context. I even said, " They might not proper counter them..". Vipper suggested to remove PTRS, I refuse that idea, but at least she says they don't work either. We are both in agreement that a buff them than removing them from the game.

I suggest you go and see what happens when a 3x PTRS Penal squad behind heavy cover goes up against a P4.

Spoilers:
https://youtu.be/P_G_TbdbGHs?t=757

this actually proves PTRS penals still suck... 1x zook on an RE in green can take on a P4 pretty good... so can 1x schreck vs a T-34 in good cover

If 40 seconds of standing still and shooting from green cover at a medium and still losing the fight against the medium and squad are considered OK that's your point of view, not mine. From my perspective, the video emphasises how bad they are and with a need of a buff. Even other squads like RE zook do a better job, and they're cheaper overall.

Other AT infantry doesn't fare much or any better in a similar situation.
But feel free to do more tests and prove me wrong.

I don't know how exactly to do this but I think a good buff to Penals would be to do 2 things.

1. Make the AT satchel deal less damage but have more range.
2. Lock the normal satchel and AT satchel behind the Grenade Package in the HQ.

The increased range doesn't need to be much but it being a little easier to get a snare off would be nice to see. Plus the biggest change is that penals can have a snare without needing to get PTRS rifles which means there is a better threat of snares being something the enemy has to watch out for. Currently with only 1 penal getting PTRS (you can only afford one realistically) the amount of snare Penal starts have is laughable. If any penal could snare it would make the job of the PTRS a lot easier overall.


Another idea is to do a bigger set of changes to the SU76. Currently there is just little reason to get one compared to the T70 and after that point they just don't preform well in any way.

What if you made the SU76 like 60 fuel and toned it down to mainly make it effective against LVs and even handle (with vet ofc) mediums? It could essentially become the mid game of a penal start and be the core AT of that build that helps against infantry thanks to it's barrage ability.
So maybe the change could be something along the lines of:
Fuel cost reduced to 60 fuel (from 75)
Penetration values decreased (practically a Pz4 would bounce a good amount of shots from an unvetted SU76)
Vet changes (things like Vet 2 granting more Pen)
Any changes to Barrage to balance out the cheaper cost (I would assume this takes a smaller nerf to help prevent spam being to strong)

I have no clue if the above changes would be enough nor would I know the exact values they should be made to but it could be another way to improve penals by giving them serious AT to shut down LVs in a more serious way and also has the added benefit of making the SU76 more appealing to get in a build.

prove me wrong

No, I don't have to "prove" you wrong because I disagree with you. It's a discussion, not a tribunal about who is in the right or who is in the wrong. I said above that if you think 40 seconds of shooting from green with no other play is OK as AT, that's your point, not mine. I think that 40 seconds of shooting and still losing is a sign that it needs a buff especially for that kind of unit.

No, I don't have to "prove" you wrong because I disagree with you. It's a discussion,

People usually bring proof to discussions to back up their arguments.

No, I don't have to "prove" you wrong because I disagree with you. It's a discussion, not a tribunal about who is in the right or who is in the wrong. I said above that if you think 40 seconds of shooting from green with no other play is OK as AT, that's your point, not mine. I think that 40 seconds of shooting and still losing is a sign that it needs a buff especially for that kind of unit.

But it's clearly performing better than Zooks or Shrecks in a situation in which it can't immediately be run down by the tank.

Penals also have a built-in defence from being run down by tanks, in their Satchel charge. I'm not seeing what part of them is needing buffing.

So you are saying that you support further PTRS buffs?

I am saying that in your opinion (without having played any preview games I might add) Penal can not fight medium, the mod team on the hand think they can fight as good as other AT squads.

People usually bring proof to discussions to back up their arguments.

If you insist on bringing proof that it is considered as "good" then you should also bring "proof" that actually validates what is "good" for that particular scenario. That's ground truth reasoning, look it up. But since we can't bring ground truth to what is "good", all we can bring is just discussions to what one thinks. All that stands here now is that you think it's good because it takes 40 seconds from green cover, where I think it's bad because it takes 40 seconds. Right now, there are other AT squads doing a much better job and quicker than 40 seconds, that could taken as ground truth, but the game is utterly assymetrical, so that can be taken out of the window. Penals and SOV are being butchered because there are loud noises in the forum repeating SOV and penals are OP.

It's also worth stating that (According to Stein's statsheet) PTRS and other AT rifles outrange Zooks and Shrecks, at 40 range vs 35. This can be an useful feature.