Profile of Mr.Smith

What did yesterdays tournament show us?


AVRE comes in... First shot it fires is out of LOS and over a shotblocker, destroying a leig and killing a Volks

That shot came from nowhere out of LOS; Luvnest was already well aware that the AVRE was there. A Sturmtiger would have wiped much, much more, without even having to make its presence known beforehand.

The AVRE can fire over the following obstacles that also act as sight-blockers:
- Destroyed buildings
- Hedges
- Fences
- (and basically just about any obstacle that can let tank shots through)

So, yes. The AVRE can utilize sightblockers, but some Terra-forming might be required. However even then, it is very inconsistent.

The Sturmtiger can fire through any and every obstacle. The difference between through and over is that the projectile trajectory changes, which lets Sturmtiger shots arrive much faster than, say, this:


The major advantage that the AVRE has is that its reload-on-the move ability makes it act as a better blob repellent (is the Turret turning because it's about to fire the next shot or?). However, the Sturmtiger is on a completely different league (tank destroyer, range, shoot-through). What they both have in common is that neither unit is a blob punisher; they are both veterancy wipers.

EDIT:
I Just realized I haven't responded to the OP at all. The AVRE is by no means useless; it's actually quite strong for the price. You just have to find a way to better integrate with the rest of your army. Try the strategy subforum for advice.

For me, it is completely irrelevant whether the Emplacements Commander is OP or UP. It just drags the game out for much longer than it should and makes the game completely unfun regardless of whether:
- You are fighting vs Sim City
- You happen to be the teammate of somebody that is using Sim City

(I don't have the Sim City commander; it doesn't seem like an interesting commander to play as)

It feels that there is no other commander/mechanic in the game currently that dictates the pacing of the game and teching decisions of your opponents/allies more than the Sim City commander.

Others have said it better than me:

This commander is not fun to play against, is inconsistent (some maps its too strong, and on others it just means Simcity in a corner), and it completely defeats the point of well thought out play.

For sure this commander and the emplacements in general, need to be re-examined to encourage the active game COH2 needs to be.

Asking is the commander OP is the wrong question. Is the commander providing a better COH2 experience? And I think the obvious answer there is 100% no, never. So it needs to be looked at.

and here, again:

This commander makes teamgames boring and static. I've been playing 2s this week and 80% of these games would be over in 15 mins but because of this commander it takes an hour long struggle to tear down a n00b's sim city while to whole game is about dodging counter-arty

Sure, there are setpiece strategies out there that people can use to counter the Sim City commander. However, is there anybody that thinks that people will continue to feel inclined to queue up as Axis in 1v1 if they are forced to repeat the exact same 30-minute counter-strat over and over again -- regardless of the opponents skill level?

I'll say it shows how broken 50% damage modifier is (2shot Jackson) rather than the power of vet5. Also it could been worst with an earlier command PIV on the mix (thus aura affecting allies should be weaker IMO)

That's true, and I agree with this analysis. However, I would have liked to, at least have the community acknowledge that there is, indeed, an issue with the Command Panther. It seems that a sizeable part of the community still believes that the CP is fine, and that we shouldn't touch what's not broken.

If you notice carefully, there are some nice low-key moments that illustrate the CP aura brokenness though:
- The schreck snipes at 54:00
- The Panther snipe at 59:00

What should be changed:

-Across the board, aura effects on allied teammates is reduced by 50%. FHQ, heroic charge, command vehicle, command PIV, command PV, Officers, commisar (if it's ever released), etc.

Initially I was a bit more hardline on auras affecting allied units. However, I think I like your suggestion a lot better. At least this will help keep not-so-combat capable units into the meta (i.e., P4 command tank).

-Command PV should see it's CP requirement go up. With the current price of vehicles and teching, either combat performance should go down (aura veterancy replacing combat vet) or price go up a bit.

Ideally, yes. There should be SOME trade-off involved when choosing between the CP and a normal Panther. With the current cost-to-performance ratio, I would be completely insane to ever field a normal Panther, when I could field the CP.

-Regarding infantry getting affected, i'll rather reduce vet0 range of aura between command PIV levels
and actual levels, and make it vet5 a 100% effect on allies an slightly increased aura range to what is it now.

This is a good start. At least it will make the CP a bit more vulnerable, as it will have to be a bit closer to the frontline. However, I'm a still a bit concerned about the Vet4 range bonus.

Basically, every advantage that the long-range low-armoured Allied TDs are supposed to have over Panthers is negated by the combination of the Range buff (Vet4) and the Sight buff (Vet0) that affected units receive.

In fact, the current Vet4 aura looks like a better version of the vehicle-half of USF Combined Arms ability (Pershing commander). Since USF has to pay a good amount of munitions to have this ability activated (125 Munitions for 30 secs), it might be a bit unfair to have a unit that provides these bonuses as a passive ability.

For reference:

Combined Arms (125 Munitions, 30 secs)

"Infantry: -20% Reload +30% Accuracy, +35% sight
Vehicle: +35% sight, -30% Reload, +5 range"

(Varunax recently discovered that it's bugged, and the bonuses of Combined Arms overwrite veterancy buffs. e.g.,, a vet3 Pershing in the aura will fire slower than outside the aura. That's a different issue though)

Don't change what isn't broken, the CP has been the same since day 1. With little or no change at all. OP I see and understand your well constructed points, but I simply do not agree with any change. Luckily we are all entitled to our own opinions.

You realize that "been there from day 1" cannot possibly be a logical argument. Especially, given the recent OKW rework which completely removed the fuel penalty and made all OKW vehicles more accessible.

If you reread your argument and honestly believe it is a valid one, what would you make out of the following arguments, which might come up in the future?

- What about Maxim fast setup? It's been there since day one.
- UKF Airlanding Officer broken Heroic charge? Since day one.
- JP4 veterancy bonuses? Relic hasn't touched that unit since day one.
- Partysans spawning from buildings in enemy territory? Day one.

Just because Relic decided to throw an ability/unit in our face, it doesn't mean the bonuses have to be set in stone. Especially given that the core mechanics of the given faction have changed.

So if you want to further my argument then. Then fine, the amount of damage (not kills) is still atrocious. It's easily the most XP required unit in the game to reach vet 5.

Technically that's not correct:

Q: But it takes aaaaages to vet the CP compared to a normal panther.
A: This is simply not true. The Veterancy requirements of the CP are only 15% more than a normal Panther. Moreover, the CP has the "Coordinated Fire" ability which (i) makes the target take 50% extra damage and (ii) costs only 35 munitions to activate. 50% extra damage is 50% extra veterancy. Your CP will catch up to your normal Panthers nicely.

However, it definitely feels that way because:
- A competent enemy will be focus-firing on the CP first to force it off the field (and thus deny it veterancy)
- You can only have one CP out in the field at a time.

To explain myself, let's take normal Panthers. It is a bit challenging to have one particular Panther reach a high level of vet. However, if you could field 3 Panthers at the same time, there's good chance that one of them would be able to reach a high-level of Veterancy before the game ends (even if you lose the other 2).

With the enemy reaching it's "max level of vet" meanwhile "unable to keep up with the CP" where have you been since WFA release? Or since the OKW fuel revamp? It's that way for any and all OKW units vs allies.

- My rose-tinted assumption here is that Relic intends to have all factions perform roughly the same at all stages of the game.
- Failing that, it would be a good idea to have all factions converge to the same extreme-late-game strength.
- The fallback to that is at least prevent certain factions from shifting their late-game gears and completely diverging from their competition.
- This is what the Vet5 system does to post-revamp OKW for certain units

Ideally, I would like to have the foresight and the mental capacity to stamp out all those issues that amount to a bigger problem. Sadly, I don't. However, even if I did, I know that this would raise reactions from parts of the community, the thread could easily devolve into a flamewar and this would get us nowhere. And we would still have a broken Command Panther.

Instead, I think it is a more pragmatic approach to point out the most unequivocally broken (due to Vet) unit in the game. Given that this thread has already been going in circles for the past few days, I think that limiting the focal point to one late-game unit (which will not affect early-game performance, or even 1v1 that much) was the right way to go.

Thus, let's try to fix the broken late-game mess of the OKW rework one piece at a time (and without affecting early game balance)

The command panther is a 1 of 1 for each player.

The command panther is 225 fuel

Well supported/focus fired Su85s, fire Flys, Jackson's have no problem with it.

Countering the Panther unit directly, absolutely. However, when the OKW/OST fleet breaches a certain threshold, and you have the effect of a very powerful aura buffing that fleet, it is no longer necessary to continue to expose the CP to danger.

"I have nothing against you personally"

Lol wut? I never said you did. Don't make yourself a victim to a crime that never happened bro. I'm talking to you in a discussion man, I didn't say anything offensive to you or vise versa for you to say something like that.

This is the Internet and misunderstandings often happen; especially when people debate a particular topic they find interesting. Given the nature of my response, I wanted to make sure that I didn't come off as too abrupt or anything