false the kv 1 will beta a p4 it has 1000 hit points so 3 more shoot and 90 more armor, even if the p 4 fight from the rear it has 165 armor but it would show the rear to kv 1 so it beat it even more easly
You misread his point. He said that a KV-1 would beat a PZIV if you do nothing and let them fight frontally. His point was that the PZIV picks the fight because of acc/speed and wouldn't wait until it is destroyed. If you are playing more smart you could even hop in from the flanks get a shot off and withdraw if there is an opportunity to do that. |
Its certainly not slow. Have you seen the Churchill for example?
The churchill plays in a complete other league: 3 hits more to kill, more AI damage, more penetration, grenade throw, smoke, better vet (+special repair engineers with Churchills anvil tactics) (+doctrinal self repair) -> not even a close one
The kv-1 is quite quick given its durability and price point.
Speaking of durability ts basically a panther with way less speed/accleration. Speed is durability too, so it has less durability in combat situatios. In addition it has not even half its penetration, worse accuracy, 10 cannon range less and no utility abilities (panther has very strong doctrinal utility ablities at least) for 4 population and 40 fuel less. Thats a joke.
It'll 1v1 anything below a panther with ease, and even a panther it can be of use if supported.
Thats not true: JPIV and even a single cheap StuG III G will kite it to death, because of greater speed and weapon range. But you get more than 1 StuG for a KW-1 of course.
And please don't talk about that panther thing. Yeah it can be of use if supported, but a scissor can be of use too if I want to have my lawn cut. I hope I have a lawnmower as a support tool. KW-1 has 4 population left for support vs Panther. I wonder what you'll get for that to make that difference between Panther taking 10 shots to kill KW-1 and KW-1 taking 20 shots to kill Panther at long range. Of course we have to ignore the fact that Panther has greater speed + range so that KW-1 will have a hard time to hit it at all. |
With all the good late buffs to Bulldozer Sherman, Ostwind, StuG III G, KW-8 and KW-2 that made them useable again, its time to have a look at another underused tank: The KW-1. It's pretty obvious that this doctrinal tank would never be picked if the other two doctrinal options of similar tier and cost KW-8 and T34/85 would be in the same doctrine. But the real shame is, that even the non-doctrinal T34/76 is the better choice in nearly all cases.
Lets keep in mind, that you get about 1,5x T34/76 for a single KW-1 (fuel+population), but a single T34/76 is already better in AT and AI.
AI: Main gun is pretty much the same with slightly higher ROF for KW-1. T34 Infantry-Damage is much higher nevertheless because of the MG damage buff of the T34. Way more accleration and speed means also it is better at kitting, pursuing and escaping. Conclusion: T34 is really good at killing infantry, KW-1 is not.
AT: As I already said the main gun on KW-1 is the same with slightly higher ROF. Its worthlesss nevertheless, because you need to flank with this gun to penetrate. Thats something the T34 can do plus it has the ram ability which can come in handy from time to time when you attacking a bigger tank with multiple units. Conclusion: Speed and ram ability makes the T34 much more flexible when it comes to AT.
Endurance: Including the damage reduction the KW-1 has the same health pool as 1,5x T,34/76 but it has more armor indeed. Still its not enough. Even a Shrek at max range has still a 59% penetration chance, not speaking about PAKs, Panther and other doctrinal threads with high penetration it has to face.
Conclusion: Health + decent armor is its only pro after it was moved from call-in to tech, but its just not enough to justify slow speed and such low damage output. Compared with a churchill, which should fit the same role, its not only that a KW-1 can take 3 hits less. Its about less penetration, about the missing smoke screen, about the missing grenades and about the overall worse AI damage. Endurance means nothing if you can't dish out some damage or bring some utility to the field at least.
Proposal:
- don't change AT performance but bring its AI to the level of a single T34 by buffing MG damage to same stats
- for utility: exchange Vet1 ability "secure mode" with "inspire" as it was already done for KW-2 / KW-8
- for some more utility: add a Vet-0 smoke shell or AI supression ability (useable only for mun of course)
This changes are nothing that would make it op, but it would clearly give soviet some unique utility in this tank. The buff to AI damage (->MG) would further define its role as an infantry support tank. Remember its not good at kiting.
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Trying to fix a problem that doesn`t exist.
Yes, it doesn't exists in 1vs1 and maybe 2vs2 because there is almost always room for a flank. It would adress problems mainly in 3v3 and 4vs4 where mediums quickly get obsolete because they just can't flank in this crowded maps with narrow approaching corridors when the heavies and TDs hit the field already.
It would be an approach to make meds more interesting in the big game modes without making it a no-brainer to use them always. An alternative to axis Panther and allied TD spam. |
What is with USF and all these superhuman feats, like sprinting with a fully loaded 100lb+ 50 caliber machine gun and tripod, or driving backwards without any mirrors or even looking out the window, or rangers (formerly, RIP) eating grenades and bullets without dying.
There is so much of it at all factions, because its a game with some arcade influence. Reverse speed = forward speed for all vehicles is part of the engine but its nonsense of course. A Panther blitzing backwards or a M10 with flanking speed driving backwards, both faster than any other tank can drive forward is just hilarious.
Then think about snipers that have slightly more than 80 health, so there are still that supermans that don't die to a direct grenade or mortar hit.
Then there is various infantry that can sprit (ability or vet) even with heavy bazookas or shreks frontally into the fray, stop and unload their AT volleys with perfect accuracy (under fire, heavily breathing and with shaking hands).
You could continue this list forever or just call it a day ;-) |
Other vehicles can do that just as easily with the reverse key.
Oh wait, there is a reverse key? XD
To be serious. It is maybe my personal experience, but...
...vehicles tend to bump into small obstacles more often when I drive them backwards
...if you get hit by the first AT gun, it is one key less you have to hit to drive away. Maybe just half a second that can make a big difference.
So i do think kiting with it is just a little bit easier. But maybe its just my personal preference. |
Honestly it just feels gimmicky, and it messes with already bad pathing when it’s attacking something. And you can’t use attack move. So this I think would be a good quality change
On the bright side it is more easy to kite with it, because it drives forward doing so while shooting and supressing on the move ;-) |
- ST can be easily countert with tanks/ TDs / Paks/ AT nades // b4 sit near your base sector and is far away from front line and will in most cases only be decrewed..
Look the SkippyFX Channel...they do exactly this in 80% of games: 3 players play aggressive...while one spam B4...and crush the enemy after 18min.
If you would have looked into his videos actually you would have noticed he builds the B4 pretty far forward. There is a reason for this: If you build it near your base it won't hit anything the whole game. You have to use it in a range about 80 to 120 to actually hit something at all at a good chance.
Of course there is a disdvantage by doing this. You are far more prone to counterpush or onmap indirect fire. You have to know where the best spots on the different maps are where it can do some damage without getting destroyed too easily. This is not a simple unit that needs no skill as you want to make us believe. It is a risk for reward unit.
Countering it with an own howitzer is far more easy, because you only have to build your howitzer just far enough away from B4 (near your base will be fine on many maps). Then your howitzer will win the fire duel if RNG doesn't hate you. |
Most of your concerns got covered already (range increase/time to disable ability etc.), but there are two aspects left:
But in real life games this is almost never happening since soviets have those "balanced" satchels so going close to the SU85 is guaranteed p4 death.
1) Satchels: Of course they are strong and they will criple your tank seriously, but they are very short ranged and Penals have no sprint ability. If you see them you can cancel your attack in time. And its the same vice versa. If you flank a Stug with a T34 for example you always have to count in that there are Shreks, a PAK or/and Grens with snare nearby. Flanking is always risk versus reward. But of course you have supporting units too, which can support your attack.
Even without the satchels, just a regular AT nade will stop the p4 giving time to the SU85 to rotate.
2) Conscript AT-Grenade: AT snares don't damage the motor of full health medium or heavy tanks anymore, luckily that was changed a while ago. So AT-Grenade is completely harmless unless you don't get hit by the SU-85, a nearby ZIS or another tank first. |
And then there is the british sniper which...
...does motor damage to light vehicles,
...turret locks tanks,
...stuns assault guns.
How do we name that? Maybe: "Does random AT bullshit instead of behaving like a sniper"? XD
Ah forget about it, it is useless nevertheless (would be good early on versus light vehicles but you need Vet1... so lets just forget about it). |