Profile of general_gawain

I am not sure why you continue this, what I have pointed out is that PzIV are not a cost efficient counter to KV-8 and unless you want to argue that they are I have little to add.

Again the problem here is that KV-8 is too lethal it should be cheaper and less lethal.

I never challenged that the PZIV is not a good counter for KV8 and I do think it is not meant to be. I just said that StuG is a cost efficient tank counter. Then you that that is not a tank, but a TD, I said its an assault gun... and so on... so lets cut that.

The point is that the ATGs will not be of any help. Normally you don't use KV8 as a defensive tool, but as an assault tool. So you'll drive into the range of the StuG without the StuG beeing exposed to your ATG fire. only if it will follow your retreat it gets into range. A single StuG can force a KV8 into retreat at least. Don't forget that you have manpower/fuel and population to spare if you have a StuG and he has a KV8. So you should have something to support your StuG.

I absolutely agree that the KV8 is lethal and so is a halftrack with flamers or a Churchill with flamers all at their time. Its all about their timing and how they can be countered at that moment. I see the problem mainly in 2vs2 and up. When you get your KV8 there is already a growing shrek blob. My argument here was that the KV8 has to be crazy because shrek blobs are frontally so crazy strong vs tanks. Its similar with Ostwind and elite units with super Bazooka. The Ostwind (after is recent buffs) has to be strong to stand a chance. The Ostwind doesn't have to be strong to counter Shock Troops for instant. I'm all in for a nerf of KV8 that is bound to penetration and/or aimtime nerf (at least when not in cover) for shreks/super bazooka. Frontally storming at tanks to destroy them is such a lame game mechanic...

Ost T4 costs more to tech to than Sov T4. Only Ost has a true T4 that is actually expensive to tech to.

Posts like this lead to confusion at players who don't know. Both factions have same starting fuel, so I don't factor this in.


Full tech Ostheer with all phases and all buildings: 235 fuel
Full tech soviet with all buildings and side techs (molotov + AT grenade): 220 fuel

Thats not a big difference and its not a real one too, because in most games Ostheer will skip one building and Soviet will either skip T1 or T2 and depending on map probably the molotov too. This brings soviet down to around 200 fuel and ostheer down to about 220. Now it depends on playing style. If Soviet sets on early pressure with M3 it costs fuel. Most probably Soviet needs its T70 for 70 fuel and so on. On the other side Ostheer can build vehicles too, but there is no such important vehicle for Ostheer as the T70 for Soviet which delays for example a PZIV as much as the T70 delays the first KV8. So in a real game Soviet T4 doesn't come so early.

If that's true that should be reverted.

The KV-8 is a KV-1 with the 76mm gun swapped out for the T-70's little 45mm.

It should NOT have better penetration than the KV-1, which is literally the same tank with a bigger gun.

KV-1 still does 160 damage, KV8 does 80. Outside the 1vs1 situation (for which reason it was buffed) a switch to AT mode is rarely of any use.

And read again the comment I responded to:

"You can't build a tank? "
Stug is not a tank but a TD and one is simply not enough.

In addition Panzer J is a T4 as much as KV-8 is.

KV-8 should simply be cheaper (around 100-120) and less lethal.

I read it and I'm pretty sure he meant that too as he said tank (the StuG even has the chassis of PZIII). And if you want to bee desperately historical correct than please don't say TD but Sturmgeschütz or Assault Gun.

One is not enough? Lets ignore superior range. Luckily you should have at least two StuGs or a combo of StuG + PZIV when he brings out his KV8.

PZIV J: That doesn't changes anything about PZIV beeing T3. Its only one variant and you surely still don't build it to counter KV8. As Ostheer build StuG, as OKW build JPIV. PZIV is an allrounder.

The Kv-8 has damage reduction passive, too much hp and burns AT-gun and Panzer Shrek infantry too quickly

Kv-8 is not problem to shrek because he have damage reduction and he melts AT infantry faster than Panzer Shrek fires

Pak gun cant stop the Kv-8 even with two of them, unless Pak gun uses a TWP

nowadays KV-8 is really hard to kill

The problem is not a single Shrek squad but multiple in 2vs2 and up. The KV8 is crazy vs Inf/AT-Guns because Shrek blobs are crazy vs tanks frontally. This is a negative interaction. 105mm is already next to useless vs Shrek blobs, because its damage output is nowhere near too KV8 and so it melts away too fast. KV8 on the other hand is still strong enough to force a shrek blob into retreat. And that is like it should be. I'm all in for nerfing KV-8 AND Shrek/Super Bazooka at the same time. Infantry held AT-weapons should only deal their deflection damage frontally. Ostwind gets easily penetrated by Super Bazooka too. Add in a Cover to Cover and the Ostwind is screwed frontally in no time.