Profile of general_gawain

Simply no. Commander changes should focus on creating interesting play and bringing commander at similar power level.

You are still talking about a game that not exists, you are talking about a state like it should be. In the current state of the game commanders are used to erase the holes in the nondotrinal raster. As long as that is the case a commander patch is a balance patch too.

I know you won't agree with me, so this point is done for me. Nothing new to add we just started to repeat our arguments over and over again. So I won't react to further repetitions.

It is simply to early to talk about balance stats but it also irrelevant to commanders.

If you think so. The devs seem to think otherwise:

Nice update, seems like post patch win ratios are heading in the right direction across pretty much all modes.

You can have your own opinion, I will agree here with Sander93. They did good work regarding balance with this patch. It is a trend you can see after nearly a month of the patched game.

Having to use a single commander over and over again is simply bad for the game.

That is the only thing I will agree with you. Apart from that I disagree with all you said and since I already said what I wanted to said I'm out at this point.

The "fact" remains that B4 is doctrinal unit and as such it should not be used to balance the game.

If B4 is OP it should simply be nerfed regardless of faction balance.

Balancing commanders will be balancing the game as long as commanders are in the role of stuffing holes in nondoctrinal roster. At an ideal game commanders would only provide optional units and abilities which alter the way to play but are not necessary to win or overcome an opponent playstyle.

In CoH2 reality only Ostheer comes close to that, OKW and Soviets still do quite good, USF/UKF is an awful faction design with such big holes in their roster that a KT can slip through unnoticed.

So as long as factions are missing units in nondoctrinal roster balancing commanders means balancing the game.

The effect of the current commander balance affected game balance in such a way, you can see that at the winrates I stated. The winrates get influenced in a positive way, so don't change single units without having a greater scope at the whole faction if you don't want to revert the positive effect.

Actually the latest patch closed the gap in multiplayer between Axis and Allies wins a little bit, not perfect but better than before. At 4vs4 Allies went up by roughly 2% and Axis went down by 2% that is a 4% difference better than before. It is similar or even better at the other temagame modes. You can check yourself by comparing by Custom range before and after the patch:

https://coh2stats.com/stats?range=range&statsSource=all&type=4v4&race=wgerman&fromTimeStamp=1623801600&toTimeStamp=1625788800

Let us nerf the units that play a big part in that without compensation at other units to just revert it? I really don't understand you. The devs got it in the right direction. Nerfing B4 can only be discussed by buffing other allied late game teamgame oriented units to not revert gained changes in winrate. In 4vs4 it is still somewhere at 46% Allies to 54% Axis, but in 3vs3 it is pretty close to beeing 50% to 50% atm.

Don't know what you think about that, but for me that are really great news!

In comparison to other units with high wipe potential that exist too, B4 still can't move and can simply be removed by a few clicks with the right commanders in a team game. Yeah, you just can't take Jaeger armor doctrine all the way to get Elephant + howitzer removal anymore. Take other commanders, adapt and have fun.

"Is it that hard to understand that" sprinting and moving faster are not the same thing?

Entities even use different animation when they sprint.

Thx for the hint with the different animations. Now its absolutely clear to me that units under effect of Assault sprint too. I put Valiant Assault, Radio Silence, For mother Russia and Assault in my commander ability layout with Cheatmod and used them one after another. Its always the same animation and same speed.

Fact: Assault uses out of combat sprint like the other abilities. Tested it multiple times and watched speed and animation, its 100% the same.

So just don't beat about the bush and get over it. Just be more cautios the next time you call out for something beeing false/incorrect. That would help. Thx.

The ability work fine for mid units, it even work fine for CQC units.

They simply can not sprint across open ground and attack frontally any more, but that does not mean that all do not benefit from it.

I just want to repeat myself, since I never said that there is no benefit for CQC units at all, because that is the impression your remark creates:

If you use such an ability as FMR on an army which infantry is focused on medium to close combat, you can quickly reposition behind the lines too, but once you get under fire at 30-40 range you are still far away from your most efficient combat range. These units benefit far less.

We have to agree to disagree.

Absolutely

PLS give it rest with "fact" thing you have started and your focus on trying to prove me wrong, else I will be forced to continue answering in similar manner.

You were the one who hammered every second argument directly with false or incorrect. It was my intention to show you that this behaviour is hasty and not helpful in a discussion.

The bonus speed bonus Assault and FMR are simply different one sprint that a speed boost.
If in your opinion some how an undocumented change has taken place the infantries lose their speed bonus under fire I suggest you make a video about and post in bugs..

I don't think its a bug since it fits the standardization of all other similar abilities, maybe the patch note was forgotten. What should i do to proof it to you? I just go ingame start CoH2 in Cheatmode, spawn some AI units and some own units about 80 range further, activate Assault and try to move past the enemy troops with move order. Every time the enemy shots at my troops they fall back in normal move. This happens to Commandos with hold fire too, they start moving normally (without shooting on hold fire) once getting under fire. This is totally clear to me and evrybody who plays Commando doctrine on a regular basis.

Additionally the movement bonus of Assault is a lot more than +0,25, I assume it is sprinting.

That is an accurate description but that does not mean that ability is bad that synergies better with certain unit or faction. So far you have been arguing that the ability is "bad". If we can agree that ability is inline with other similar abilities than what you are suggesting that this ability should be replaced by another better suited for shock troops and PTRS Penals.

Absolutely. I would say that is better suited for soviet infantry lineup, since cons are not good at long range either.

PLS provide the stat for FMR and VA at the time that made them so different.

I don't know the exact old stats of both abilities, but I remember the discussions about FMR beeing so much better than VA initated by Wehrmacht players. FMR was clearly stronger while active and was made for direct combat assault, it had an additional aftermath that weakend all soviet troops.

Keep in mind that there was a time that Both KV-1 and B-4 where not that great so the commander was not that popular

Keep in mind there was a time that KV-1 was not great but FMR Shock troops rocked enemy infantry away and B4 with Vet1 precision strike was a beast (hitting anything in range with pinpoint accuracy). The original Counterattack commander clearly beats its current incarnation. Current B4 makes it fun playing again, but with nerf to FMR its still nowhere near the original one [perspective].

I am not sure why in your opinion AO should work different from FMR since it available with commandos that are also CQC units.

Ironically you brought up a very good example for factional asymmetry maing an similar ability strong or weak. First of all Brits doing good with current implementation of Assault giving out of combat sprint and boni in combat. Reasons: It greatly benefits the typical IS double Bren build and Commandos with Brens are doing fine too. But in the end it also benefits the CQC Commandos without Brens. Instead of having only +25% move they now double their move out of combat. This leads to the situation that they can sprint undetected under the nose of the enemy. Just camouflage them, set them on hold fire and you can cover double the distance to the next cover without getting spotted. Perfect.

Thats the reason why sprinting out of combat is way better than +25% move (in and out combat) for Commandos and why +25% move (in and out combat) is way better for Shock Troops than sprinting out of combat -> Factional asymmetrie.