Machine gun penetration came after infantry armour was removed. On March 25th, Received Accuracy replaced Infantry Armour on all units except Shock Troops (who literally do have armour plates on them, if you look closely). One month later on April 24th, Machine Guns were given higher armour penetration values over regular weapons. MG Penetration never had any effect on Infantry Armour except Shock Troops and for a brief time, Obersoldaten and Jaeger Light Infantry, who still had armour values by mistake.
I have to agree with Ferwiner, as infantry get vet it seems they get less accurate rather than more. I think conscripts get +40% accuracy when vet 3 compared to either -49 incoming accuracy that volks get at vet 5. So vet 3 cons find it harder to hit vet 5 volks than when both are vet 0.
I love CoH, and I especially love The Early/Mid game..
Late game for me just becomes Command & Conquer style game play (A-Move, huge blobbing etc).
I have always wondered in CoH, why they don't tie upgrades to veterancy.. it would give the idea and reason to keeping units alive more important and would increase the awesomeness of getting your units to high levels of veterancy.
At the moment Vet gives units things like received accuracy deductions etc which just turns units into Attack-Move zombies with no care for cover what-so-ever.
This could also work for tanks, for example a T34 when it gets to Vet1 could get RAM, then at Vet2 could get an increased shell-loader mechanism to increase fire-rate, and then at Vet3 could upgrade its gun to 85MM.. infantry would follow the same path.. Grenadiers would get Heal at Vet1, Improved Armour at Vet2 and then MG42 at Vet3... these upgrades would cost munitions of course, but less then it currently costs...
thoughts?
Yeah I like this idea, I used to always wait for the veteran bonus to accuracy that you get at vet 2 etc. before upgrading units with weapons. I know this veterancy mechanic has been integral to both Coh1 and 2 as well as DoW2 but sometimes it makes the game feel very unsatisfying especially long range combat. Who cares about cover etc. when you have enough received accuracy bonus that you can dodge small arms fire like Neo from the Matrix? As you said it kind of ruins late game engagements.
If the option is 10 guys with a shovel or 1 guy with a pistol then that seems like a pretty good choice to make for your army. As it happens, the Red Army never outnumbered the Axis 10:1, and in fact in the early stages of the war the Axis matched or even outnumbered the Soviets on that front. The significant numerical advantage comes later for the Soviets, and over that same time period we see the emergence of Tigers, Panthers, Tiger IIs and so on. While these vehicles were quite effective tactically, it's likely that the Ostheer would have performed better with larger numbers of lesser vehicles than it would have with smaller numbers of high performance vehicles. The most amazing military accomplishments of the Wehrmacht were achieved in the early years of the war and were not the result of supertanks and wunderwaffen, they were achieved with aircraft, small arms and tanks that were more or less comparable to what their opponents were fielding.
Yeah I find it funny how no one ever mentions that.... Operation Barbarossa was the greatest invasion in the entirety of human warfare.
I would love to see a movie about Second Lieutenant Audie L. Murphy, what he did was astounding.
It used to have 45 range, which actually made it somewhat decent, but then it was nerfed.
Yeah it's depressing to see guards chasing after a low hp vehicle even with engine damage (especially if on a road). They get gunned down as they try to get into range and thanks to the aim time of the PTRS they don't even get any shots off.
Also it's funny if you think about having to have this fragility added on, I get what you guys are saying but does that mean the Russian sniper isn't a sniper because it's harder to kill than the OST sniper. It's a semi-joke, Obers are a 4 man squad with one guy with an mg34 which is as lethal as a sniper.
Russian sniper is to OST sniper what Obers are to Russian sniper.
I was farming war spoils earlier this week and I noticed it seems that it's the opposite way around. Not so much with the t70 but with the t34, it is a very frustrating tank to use when engaging infantry. It will miss miss miss then pop 4 men in the next shot. It's needs to do more reliable damage (no I don't mean wiping squads left right and centre, I mean more consistent damage so that the Axis player will actually have a retreat chance rather than going from 4 to 0 men).
Can anyone confirm if the incoming accuracy bonuses affect the tanks main gun accuracy or is it just the small arms fire from the hull mg etc. because I found this little display of Russian accuracy humorous but slightly disconcerting. Even the t70 was missing at an alarming rate (both tanks were vet 2 which is meant to make them more accurate).
Raketen is shit,and pak 40 is now lousy-it will damage but not kill a vehicle even if u ambush it.Options?
Recent Popularity of shreck is a symptom of this problem.Usage of pak 40 has reduced drastically.
Welcome to the world of Zis-3 which fires slower and is up against higher armour values on average. The raketenwerfer has the same stats as the Zis-3 except for 10 less range and it lacks green cover bonus. On the other hand it fires faster and can garrison/retreat.
More like, wrong way to think of obsersoldaten[sic].
Obersoldaten are elite long-range infantry with high dmg output, nothing more or less.
Think about it.
-29% received accuracy at Vet 0 and that only gets higher with vet, means they are more than elite long-range infantry with high dmg output, they also laugh at long range small arms fire. It's funny to watch the Allied units try and hit these squads especially with the vet bonuses.
-29% plus the -40% or -50% from retreat and you can imagine how low the accuracy of Allied small arms will be.
To wipe them out you are going to have to blow them up, that's why you see so many ''I lost my high vet squad to a 1 shot explosion'' and why Russians are known for ''cheese''. That's how you wipe axis squads at that point, intended by relic or not.
i think if you say "sniper", it is assumed they come with lethality but also fragility.
so i dont think calling them okw "sniper" is a good way to look at them
Ok well if you want to get hung up on that bit of pedantry go right ahead. I'm talking about the lethality, who do you get to remove the gunner from a team weapon? The sniper, because of the speed at which they can do it. In that way they fill the role quite well, walking up to mgs and wiping them thanks to gunning down the squad faster than they can re-man the gun.
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