On paper it looks like they're over nerfed when you consider what USF get with Shocks/Paras respectively for the cost.
We will see in a day or so when the patch goes live I guess.
How so? Please explain the thought process on that one. Shocks only do their dps at spitting range, if you retreat you are guaranteed to get away. It's not like they don't have a high MP cost too.
Paras pay 120 muni for their long range dps and cost 380MP to call in so what is the cost difference here?
Let's not forget the 0.7 vet 0 buff to incoming accuracy that obers have (giving them the equivalent of 114hp against small arms fire).
I agree with you though, we will have to wait and see. If there is a problem then I will agree to changes, but if obers have been brought in line then that's how it should be. |
That's great, and I never said Obers were worse. But even if they are still better I don't really care because the cost efficiency isn't were I need it to be to justify getting them and then spending munitions on them when I can do the same thing with my call in infantry.
Scavenge, Luft, and Breakthrough are all fairly good doctrines, not really any reason not to just skip Obers can get out more utility focused infantry that help fill holes in your ability gaps.
So it comes down to Obers not being a no-brainer choice anymore? What kind of ''cost-efficiency'' do you need to justify them? They still fall on the favourable side in terms of MP and muni when fighting the doctrinally equipped rifleman squad.
I'm glad to hear that people are going to consider other infantry now than just volks and obers, it just goes to show there really was a problem.
The simple matter of the fact is Obers were not overnerfed, they still perform very well and comparing them to how they used to be is foolish as everyone knows they were too good at that level of performance. |
Such a dedicated effort to expose the Natsiz . I know you failed to become a diplomat, but the COH2 community(Steam forums, official Relic forums and here) is not a playground for you to exercise role playing.
The change log is up, have a look, and guess what, it's not for another game.
Obers should be available sooner, moving them to T2 will help balancing this nerf.
Not the patch notes, the patch implemented into game. Try new obers out in game before we start calling for changes. From the maths I've done obers will still be kicking ass, just not to the insane levels they were before. |
Because I was talking about Obers + LMG versus rifle + double 1919's. Obers are expensive, which reduces their cost efficiency especially when dealing with enemy infantry hordes.
So now the goalposts have been moved to 400MP and 60 munitions vs 280MP and 140 munitions? Why did you not say 280MP and 140 munitions then?
Even with these new criteria the results are:
At short range obers do 147% the dps that rifles with 2x1919s do to obers (411MP and 205MU equivalent in said rifles)
Medium range: 151% (421MP and 211 MU)
Long range: 158.6% (444MP and 222MU)
So even taking into account OKW 80% muni income, obers still come out on top now. USF have to spend almost twice as much on muni 140 MU vs 60/0.8 (75) to deal roughly 66% of the damage to obers as obers do to them. I don't see the problem here, obers are still going to bleed those rifles as they should. How it was before was over the top. |
I said Obers without the LMG are basically more expensive riflemen/grens performance wise. Obers with LMG will obviously beat rifles, but fuck If I'm spending 400 MP and 60 munitions to do something I can do with Pfuss and JLI, or just Fallsch who actually have a snare that I can use to stop crushing.
Considering I didn't actually say what he said I said, I think this is an accusation you could lob at him, rather.
The new Vet 5 makes shreks fire 43% faster, I assume you can see why that little accuracy nerf didn't really mean that much lol.
Post number 186 in the patch-march-31st-changelog
You said ''Why would I pay 400 MP + 60 munitions for a squad that has the same performance as a 280 MP unit.''
Alex I'm beginning to see why you rub people the wrong way, you are accusing me of lying when it is you who is doing it intentionally or not. Please don't make statements that are categorically false. |
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Any small arms fire dps values coming at obers needs to be multiplied by 0.7 due to their starting bonus. I think a lot of players are forgetting this little trick that obers have (some sort of force field I believe).
141% dps of rifles at close range [396 MP equivalent of rifles],
254% at mid range [711 MP of rifles],
441% at far range [1235 MP of rifles],
Note that is with the lmg upgrade.
That means rifles will want to get into close range which further reduces their dps due to firing on the move.
That being said this is all just theory, let's play the game before we get up in arms. The Ober drug withdrawal will be painful but it is necessary.
Also all this craziness about adding teching cost of OKW to obers is a new low. You aren't teching for the sole reason of getting obers, you would tech anyway.
If we want to talk like that then guards and shocks cost must take into account requiring 2 CP which means losing men, killing men or building structures. Should we take into account the manpower bleed that happens during that time? No because that is lunacy.
Obers cost 400MP and 60 munitions for the best lmg in the game and the only one that fires on the move. |
Sorry, but i dont think this is the case. Obers with no LMG still out DPS rifles by 441% at long range. (Sorry no idea what i was saying here) they out DPS by almost 2x at range with base rifles)
Durability wise, they are almost as durable as 6 grens againts small arms.
Considering 4 gren models cost 240, 6 grens would cost 360.
Surely the best LMG in the game + booby traps + 2 very strong grenades makes up for that 40mp cost right?
You were right when talking about Obers with lmg, a lot of players fail to mention that obers start with 0.7 incoming accuracy bonus off the bat.
Alex was spreading misinformation in regards to obers with lmg being no better than vanilla rifles.
Going head to head the numbers are:
141% dps of rifles at close range [396 MP equivalent of rifles],
254% at mid range [711 MP of rifles],
441% at far range [1235 MP of rifles],
The fact of the matter is rifles coming at obers in green cover will still be sent packing. You just can't attack move across a road anymore and expect to take no casualties with obers. You can't argue with those numbers God knows what they were before. |
Kübler-Ross model:
Bargaining.
Patch isn't even out yet and some people are already calling for changes. How about we wait and see? The reaction of certain players on the board is strange to say the least. The changes made to OKW were needed, it's like a drug that people need to realise they'll be better off without, once they go through the withdrawal. |
Yes I have and it is a nice ability (although I find they could have emphasized more on the "stun" effect than the fact that you can kill multiple squad members), but it is not free either.
I do think the Sniper will be more useful now and looking forward to it myself, I just disagree that the change is too big or makes it somehow overpowered in comparison to the Soviet Sniper.
Oh no no I don't think the OST sniper will become OP at all, the HP buff was definitely warranted! I'm just happy that he's become more viable now. |
Since allied squads have usually bigger squad sizes (yeah ok, not USF MG and AT gun) I disagree.
Have you ever used the OST snipers vet ability? That thing kills 2-3 guys quite regularly and if you line it up so it passes through another squad on it's way to target (easy to do against those Rifle blobs) you can score a crazy amount of kills.
OST sniper is definitely useful against Riflemen and less so against conscripts, you will bleed USF like a stuck pig if you use him right.
Getting hp boost from 40 to 82 hp will make it easier for him to survive too. |
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