Over nerfed Obers

Every weapon have a cooldown, so it affects them just as much as any other weapon.

You were right when talking about Obers with lmg, a lot of players fail to mention that obers start with 0.7 incoming accuracy bonus off the bat.

Alex was spreading misinformation in regards to obers with lmg being no better than vanilla rifles.

Going head to head the numbers are:

141% dps of rifles at close range [396 MP equivalent of rifles],
254% at mid range [711 MP of rifles],
441% at far range [1235 MP of rifles],

The fact of the matter is rifles coming at obers in green cover will still be sent packing. You just can't attack move across a road anymore and expect to take no casualties with obers. You can't argue with those numbers God knows what they were before.

I said Obers without the LMG are basically more expensive riflemen/grens performance wise. Obers with LMG will obviously beat rifles, but fuck If I'm spending 400 MP and 60 munitions to do something I can do with Pfuss and JLI, or just Fallsch who actually have a snare that I can use to stop crushing.

Like that didn't happened before

Considering I didn't actually say what he said I said, I think this is an accusation you could lob at him, rather.

Does the vet 5 cooldown modifer for volks affect their kar98s or just weapon upgrades/pickups.

The new Vet 5 makes shreks fire 43% faster, I assume you can see why that little accuracy nerf didn't really mean that much lol.

Any small arms fire dps values coming at obers needs to be multiplied by 0.7 due to their starting bonus. I think a lot of players are forgetting this little trick that obers have (some sort of force field I believe).

141% dps of rifles at close range [396 MP equivalent of rifles],
254% at mid range [711 MP of rifles],
441% at far range [1235 MP of rifles],
Note that is with the lmg upgrade.

That means rifles will want to get into close range which further reduces their dps due to firing on the move.

That being said this is all just theory, let's play the game before we get up in arms. The Ober drug withdrawal will be painful but it is necessary.

Also all this craziness about adding teching cost of OKW to obers is a new low. You aren't teching for the sole reason of getting obers, you would tech anyway.

If we want to talk like that then guards and shocks cost must take into account requiring 2 CP which means losing men, killing men or building structures. Should we take into account the manpower bleed that happens during that time? No because that is lunacy.

Obers cost 400MP and 60 munitions for the best lmg in the game and the only one that fires on the move.

I thought as much. The new volks will be interesting. The faster firing will be good for chasing down tanks. As well as improve volks ai performance, making them more dual purpose ai/at at vet 5. How bad could it be? Instead of winning firefights due to bullet immunity, now they'll be more in line with other squads.

Obers are fine now, and with the Insta-wipe adjustments they are less prone to vanish.

I said Obers without the LMG are basically more expensive riflemen/grens performance wise. Obers with LMG will obviously beat rifles, but fuck If I'm spending 400 MP and 60 munitions to do something I can do with Pfuss and JLI, or just Fallsch who actually have a snare that I can use to stop crushing.



Considering I didn't actually say what he said I said, I think this is an accusation you could lob at him, rather.



The new Vet 5 makes shreks fire 43% faster, I assume you can see why that little accuracy nerf didn't really mean that much lol.

Post number 186 in the patch-march-31st-changelog

You said ''Why would I pay 400 MP + 60 munitions for a squad that has the same performance as a 280 MP unit.''

Alex I'm beginning to see why you rub people the wrong way, you are accusing me of lying when it is you who is doing it intentionally or not. Please don't make statements that are categorically false.

Obers are fine now, and with the Insta-wipe adjustments they are less prone to vanish.

The reduciton in 1 shot mechanics was very small, 120's will only do it 10% less while doing more damage at mid range, and the HMC (Scott) adjustment was even smaller

HMC splash damage deals 80 damage at ~1.38 radius before patch.
HMC splash damage deals 80 damage at ~1.35 radius after patch.

Post number 186 in the patch-march-31st-changelog

You said ''Why would I pay 400 MP + 60 munitions for a squad that has the same performance as a 280 MP unit.''

Alex I'm beginning to see why you rub people the wrong way, you are accusing me of lying when it is you who is doing it intentionally or not. Please don't make statements that are categorically false.

Because I was talking about Obers + LMG versus rifle + double 1919's. Obers are expensive, which reduces their cost efficiency especially when dealing with enemy infantry hordes.

Guys lets make it so obers can be upgrade with 4 lmgs for the 60 muni cost. I DID THE MATH SO ITS BALANCE

I said Obers without the LMG are basically more expensive riflemen/grens performance wise. Obers with LMG will obviously beat rifles, but fuck If I'm spending 400 MP and 60 munitions to do something I can do with Pfuss and JLI, or just Fallsch who actually have a snare that I can use to stop crushing.

Funny fact.

Obers without LMG will beat Rifles at any range.
And it's not beating by last man standing. It's beating without losing any model or 1; 2 ver, very rare.

Funny fact.

Obers without LMG will beat Rifles at any range.

Wow that's great, I can get the exact same thing with out spending 400 mp! The Obers DPS with only rifles in close range is only a tiny bit higher than basic riflemen, and if you get unlucky and one of your models dies you just lost a good chunk of your DPS.

The question here isn't "Are Obersoldat still good?" It's "Why would I spend 400 MP and 60 munitions for a infantry unit with no utility that does something I can already do".

They are best infanry in game. even after nurf

They are best infanry in game. even after nurf

They are still the most expensive. If Relic wanted to encourage more use of combined arms they should have reworked how most of OKW's infantry units worked, not just nerf one and hope people don't figure out how to use Luftwaffe, Breakthrough, or Scavenge.

Has anyone actually played with these new obers yet? OpieOP

Guys lets make it so obers can be upgrade with 4 lmgs for the 60 muni cost. I DID THE MATH SO ITS BALANCE

Why would I pay 400MP and 60 muni for 4 LMGs which can't kill 3 paras with double LMGs? Answer me damn it.

Wow that's great, I can get the exact same thing with out spending 400 mp! The Obers DPS with only rifles in close range is only a tiny bit higher than basic riflemen, and if you get unlucky and one of your models dies you just lost a good chunk of your DPS.

The question here isn't "Are Obersoldat still good?" It's "Why would I spend 400 MP and 60 munitions for a infantry unit with no utility that does something I can already do".

And how you want to do this since Fusilier vs Rifles at close range it's almost 50/50 and Jaegers won't stand agasint them at close range unless Rifles are damaged?
They have a chance when Fighting at long range but when Rifles caught you around the corner only Obers can kill them.
Obers can melt Rifles without LMG at any range. No other infantry below 400 can do that.


Outisde of the cover for both sides, 2 Rifles vs 1 Obers will lead us to 1 model of Rifle standing and dead Obers but this involves much RNG.

They are still the most expensive. If Relic wanted to encourage more use of combined arms they should have reworked how most of OKW's infantry units worked, not just nerf one and hope people don't figure out how to use Luftwaffe, Breakthrough, or Scavenge.

What the fuck is ur point?

They still have vet5

They still are the best infatry in game

Bonus. they are not locked behind a doc like all good allied infantry

With the new adjustments, they are less prone to getting whiped

Stop crying and enjoy the nurf

Because I was talking about Obers + LMG versus rifle + double 1919's. Obers are expensive, which reduces their cost efficiency especially when dealing with enemy infantry hordes.

So now the goalposts have been moved to 400MP and 60 munitions vs 280MP and 140 munitions? Why did you not say 280MP and 140 munitions then?

Even with these new criteria the results are:

At short range obers do 147% the dps that rifles with 2x1919s do to obers (411MP and 205MU equivalent in said rifles)

Medium range: 151% (421MP and 211 MU)

Long range: 158.6% (444MP and 222MU)

So even taking into account OKW 80% muni income, obers still come out on top now. USF have to spend almost twice as much on muni 140 MU vs 60/0.8 (75) to deal roughly 66% of the damage to obers as obers do to them. I don't see the problem here, obers are still going to bleed those rifles as they should. How it was before was over the top.

And how you want to do this since Fusilier vs Rifles at close range it's almost 50/50 and Jaegers won't stand agasint them at close range unless Rifles are damaged?
They have a chance when Fighting at long range but when Rifles caught you around the corner only Obers can kill them.
Obers can melt Rifles without LMG at any range. No other infantry below 400 can do that.


Outisde of the cover for both sides, 2 Rifles vs 1 Obers will lead us to 1 model of Rifle standing and dead Obers but this involves much RNG.

Dude the issue here isn't that the new Obers are shit (because they are not!), it's just that they are fairly costly when you can make units that do more than kill infantry while still being VERY GOOD at killing infantry.

JLI and Fallsch can both spawn from buildings, JLI have sprint and can sight for you while cloaking, Fallsch do a buttload of DPS at all ranges and have a snare that OKW needs badly, Fuss are a great meat shield that's cheap and effective while having flares. The G43 makes them even better.

Obers should have just had the LMG removed completely (because seriously fuck LMGs), and been given 2 regular StG's and a cost of like 340 MP, IR StG's remain the same. Instead we got the LMG nerfed and move to an upgrade, and the IR StG nerfed for ~reasons~ despite being 30 muni more expensive than the LMG.

So now the goalposts have been moved to 400MP and 60 munitions vs 280MP and 140 munitions? Why did you not say 280MP and 140 munitions then?

Even with these new criteria the results are:

At short range obers do 147% the dps that rifles with 2x1919s do to obers (411MP and 205MU equivalent in said rifles)

Medium range: 151% (421MP and 211 MU)

Long range: 158.6% (444MP and 222MU)

So even taking into account OKW 80% muni income, obers still come out on top now. USF have to spend almost twice as much on muni 140 MU vs 60/0.8 (75) to deal roughly 66% of the damage to obers as obers do to them. I don't see the problem here, obers are still going to bleed those rifles as they should. How it was before was over the top.

That's great, and I never said Obers were worse. But even if they are still better I don't really care because the cost efficiency isn't were I need it to be to justify getting them and then spending munitions on them when I can do the same thing with my call in infantry.

Scavenge, Luft, and Breakthrough are all fairly good doctrines, not really any reason not to just skip Obers can get out more utility focused infantry that help fill holes in your ability gaps.

Dude the issue here isn't that the new Obers are shit (because they are not!), it's just that they are fairly costly when you can make units that do more than kill infantry while still being VERY GOOD at killing infantry.

JLI and Fallsch can both spawn from buildings, JLI have sprint and can sight for you while cloaking, Fallsch do a buttload of DPS at all ranges and have a snare that OKW needs badly, Fuss are a great meat shield that's cheap and effective while having flares. The G43 makes them even better.

Obers should have just had the LMG removed completely (because seriously fuck LMGs), and been given 2 regular StG's and a cost of like 340 MP, IR StG's remain the same. Instead we got the LMG nerfed and move to an upgrade, and the IR StG nerfed for ~reasons~ despite being 30 muni more expensive than the LMG.

you said there is no point for spending 400MP when you can spend less and now you are calling Falls for 440...

As for STGs, they are amazing. Make Obers into LMG Grens at long range and Shocks at close range. I belive you can have both.