T0-0CP panzerfusiliers worthless

Panzerfusiliers pros

• Have at nade with better range and not tier locked
  

..................................................
and thats it for pros,realy what the fuck

Cons

• 280 manpower cost
  
• Supposed to be long range unit but loses to every 280 mp unit at ANY range
  
• No sandbags
  
  

some *meh* facts


They actually better than folks at along range around 2x times,but not enough to beat rifleman or section, also worse at mid and just unimaginable bad in close ranges

Because of 280 mp cost and ineffectiveness forces you to make 4 of them to be able to do at least something,that breaks timings for tec up

You will find yourself fighting M20 with only 4 fusis most of times,with AT in queue or tier building




Like wine,gets better over time

pros

• Great panzerschreck upgrade,deletes any light from the game except those with suppression,one of the best at squad in game(rangers still better,but cost more,so actually can be considered best of the best)
  
• With G43 NOW they become a little better then volks at long range,and significantly better at mid/close(stg upgrade considered)also 6th model helps
  
• After vet2 AT nade becomes best in the game in term of range,really easy to throw out
  

cons

• Experience is a great teacher,but doesn't tell how to build sandbags
  
• Munition eater,just forger about throwing nades if you want those g43 or schecks
  

*meh* facts
if early game went bad,you will be stuck with outclassed infantry without upgrades
if you go full worthless mode and actually build 3-4 fusis,there is no way you going to upgrade them all


There is no reason them to be 0CP T0 since they perform bad in early game and alternative volks are way better
Right now there is only one reason to bring them early,m3 scout car or universal carrier,but for that reason okw have T0 AT gun

Fixing

Add kar damage to match volks,from 10 to 12 or more,until they beat rifleman at long and be more or less even with sections,since their advantage and disadvantage comes from rate of fire,they still gonna lose close range with rifleman or section

Another way is to make default squad size 6 again(problems with pschreck incoming) so they will perform better without stats changing

And last lock them under tier or cp applying both changes above

Early game disadvantages is exactly why you should try double kubel into pzfuzils. Great strat, almost no MP bleed if played right, saves your munitions, and actually allows you to reach high veterancy level faster for both kubels and pzfuzils.

Build order is double kubel->pzfuzils->optional second engineer-> double pzfuzils->SwS into medbay or mechanisied, do not really matter.

You want them to beat riflemen at long range... even though riflemen cost the same to produce..., have a build time... and at the SAMETIME having more models than riflemen...?

You want them to beat riflemen at long range... even though riflemen cost the same to produce..., have a build time... and at the SAMETIME having more models than riflemen...?

Panzerfusiliers have build time too though. And they are stated to be effective at long range while riflemen are stated to be effective at medium range so I don't see a problem if pfusi are winning long range fights vs rifles.

snipped long OP post

You want them to beat riflemen at long range... even though riflemen cost the same to produce..., have a build time... and at the SAMETIME having more models than riflemen...?

Panzerfusiliers have build time too though. And they are stated to be effective at long range while riflemen are stated to be effective at medium range so I don't see a problem if pfusi are winning long range fights vs rifles.

Panzerfusiliers already out-dps riflemen at range 25 and beyond (aka long range)*. By getting them earlier, you have access to a snare right off the bat, and can go down an either incredibly potent AI path with six models and triple G43s (and that sweet, sweet 40% accuracy vet at vet 2) or double shreks.

Stock Panzerfusiliers also have almost the same DPS as Volksgrenadiers from range 27 on and are slightly better at absolute max range. This is due to much greater accuracy, the highest, in fact, of all standard (non-elite) infantry available. A damage increase would actually make Panzerfusiliers massively superior.

I should also add there is nothing preventing you from building some Volksgrenadiers along with your Panzerfusiliers to lay down cover and screen them at shorter ranges. You also have Sturmpioneers who will outfight anyone else on the field in the early game.

*(Fun fact: Volks do too)

*(Fun fact: Volks do too)
fun fact,fusis don't, so what is the point bringing them if you have volks?That is what post about
Also in actual game you will never have 35 and even 30 range fights and EVEN if you find this range that's just 1 step behind and enemy is safe,while your action is retreat if you get 15-20 range fight
There is no problems with them being superior in long range since they just an abomination in close combat

rifle start with reduced base RA so the odds at long range even out

*(Fun fact: Volks do too)
fun fact,fusis don't, so what is the point bringing them if you have volks?That is what post about
Also in actual game you will never have 35 and even 30 range fights and EVEN if you find this range that's just 1 step behind and enemy is safe,while your action is retreat if you get 15-20 range fight
There is no problems with them being superior in long range since they just an abomination in close combat

The point is you probably shouldn't be spamming Fusiliers only, since Volks are going to be more efficient for most of the early game. And as was already established, Pfusiliers out-dps starting range 25, not 30, not 35. If you're standing your ground, or better yet in cover, that's probably enough to force RM from closing the distance in the first exchanged volley or two.

What you are asking for is to make this unit a better version of volks, period, and that's always going to be the problem, since volks are already incredibly good.

The idea here is you can use Panzerfusiliers snare early on, when volks dont have one, nullifying that early game disadvantage, and maybe get some vet on the Panzerfusiliers early on before you throw munitions at them, at which point they most certainly do become better than Volks.

So if you dont want to put Panzerfusiliers out early game, before you have 90 munitions, you don't have to. You still have Volks. The option is there, however.

rifle start with reduced base RA so the odds at long range even out

Oh boy, a 3% RA advantage. Even if that was enough to be considerable, Volks lose 10% RA on their first veterancy, so the ball goes back in the OKW court.

• Experience is a great teacher,but doesn't tell how to build sandbags
  
  

Sandbags should be removed from all mainline inf units anyway (unless you pick a doctrine for it) and moved to engineers in my book.

It's a major reason why Volks and Inf section are too cost effective

Sandbags should be removed from all mainline inf units anyway (unless you pick a doctrine for it) and moved to engineers in my book.

It's a major reason why Volks and Inf section are too cost effective

What about conscripts?

What about conscripts?

Last I checked, cons lose all engagements at long range, sandbags just making them lose longer instead of win easily.

What about conscripts?

on cons it is fine I would say

I didn't read the poll carefully enough and voted the wrong way. PF's are no more worthless than rifles. They trade really well with rifles unless you're trying to use them like Sturmpio's. They're really good with upgrades and vet, especially the G43 upgrade.

Came here just to lol @ "no sandbags" being unironically listed in cons. Come on dude, of course you're just biased with a comment like that.

Yeah I think sandbags should be removed for all mainline except sections cuz they need it most. However, we can increase the build time for sandbags for sections instead so they don't spam them and are used strategically

Yeah I think sandbags should be removed for all mainline except sections cuz they need it most. However, we can increase the build time for sandbags for sections instead so they don't spam them and are used strategically

Infantry Sections and Volksgrenadiers should lose sandbags, Sturmpioneers and Royal Engineers should gain them.

That'd go a long way to mitigating OKW and UKF mainline spam.

Infantry Sections and Volksgrenadiers should lose sandbags, Sturmpioneers and Royal Engineers should gain them.

That'd go a long way to mitigating OKW and UKF mainline spam.

Or at least significantly slow the build time for non engineer/ low combat "reserve" type troops.
Also RE should probably get sandbags.

If re build sandbags, tank traps should not provide green cover anymore

If re build sandbags, tank traps should not provide green cover anymore

Tank traps shouldn't provide green cover anyway. Just look at them.

Tank traps shouldn't provide green cover anyway. Just look at them.

Especially not to multiple models