Soviet General Faction Changes - New cmdr mod 5.0

No, the M3 Half Track that comes in the USF Mechanized Commander.

Oh right, that's not an M5. Thanks.

Maybe this is a bug, but my Maxim instantly suppressed two groups of pioneers (and not from the third or fifth burst, as usual). If you look at changes from a teriotic point of view, this is ridiculous, the maxim will work like the rest of the machine guns only using ammunition, the next step the Soviet mortar will fire only for ammunition when it will automatically fire from other countries.

Maybe this is a bug, but my Maxim instantly suppressed two groups of pioneers.

even if you removed the word "instantly" i would think it was a bug

even if you removed the word "instantly" i would think it was a bug

I tested maxim right now, and it really has a good suppression without vet ability, and I find this ninja bug a very useful change for maxim. Also with 7.0 mod I got a strange bug:
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I tested maxim right now, and it really has a good suppression without vet ability, and I find this ninja bug a very useful change for maxim.

Can the balance team give any clarity about this change?

Can the balance team give any clarity about this change?

Confirmation bias as far as I can tell. Maxim in the mod suppresses at mid-high range in about 2,5 seconds (near the end of one burst), which is the same as in the live patch.

Unless there's something that causes a bug that gives it higher suppression.

Confirmation bias as far as I can tell. Maxim in the mod suppresses at mid-high range in about 2,5 seconds (near the end of one burst), which is the same as in the live patch.

Unless there's something that causes a bug that gives it higher suppression.

And I think that we should stay on such direct buff. Performance can be changed, but it is definitely more correct than to pay ammunition for what it should do by default.

And I think that we should stay on such direct buff. Performance can be changed, but it is definitely more correct than to pay ammunition for what it should do by default.

What buff? The Maxim's standard suppression hasn't been changed in the mod. It's ~2.5 seconds at 30 range on neutral cover, which is exactly like it is in the live patch.

There is no buff besides the temporary extra suppression for the ability.


If you noticed anything substantially shorter than those 2.5 seconds, it's a bug and I'd like to see a replay to figure out what's wrong. But in the tests I ran this never happened.

A friend and I ran some tests comparing Maxim without, Maxim with, and DSHK to suppress a squad running into green cover from neutral territory (trying to simulate what a real situation may be like if someone doesn't try to flank but tries to get into safe range to rifle-grenade or just distract while another squad flanks).

I gotta be real, I don't find the ability that useful. The veterancy thing is whatever, it'll happen eventually if you don't get completely punked, but the fact that you have to toggle it in advance and only have a short window to actually get the bonus to suppress is really ... just not useful. It also doesn't suppress _that_ much faster that it's so noticeable. The biggest difference I noticed was that with the ability active squads who got into green cover didn't go from yellow suppression to no suppression as fast. That's... not really an achievement, IMO. At most it may give you a little more support when you know a big push is coming in advance.

If you are open to input, I'd change the vet 1 ability altogether to reduce damage, increase suppression, and reduce movement speed while active (with a cooldown of when you can/can't use it) and have it be a toggle.

I just don't think it's a useful ability compared to literally any other HMG active ability.

edit: cleaned up some wording.

edit 2: Another option may be to keep it as is and give it an effect like Rear Echelons' 'Covering Fire' where it gains additional suppression over time, so after 10 seconds it goes up another 10% and at the last 10 seconds it goes up another 10%. If I have to be prepared and use muni to suppress, I'd like it to actually suppress.

I would like to see new maxims vet1 being able to suppress ignoring cover.

I mean, if the volume of fire you receive under cover is not decreasing and you can't snip out of protection, that's the definition of pinned down.

I think ignoring cover would be cheesy. Also doesn't fixthe core issue that the maxim is shit and adjusting the vet won't make it stop being shit because the shit unit is prone to wipeseamimg it loses its vet.

I think ignoring cover would be cheesy. Also doesn't fixthe core issue that the maxim is shit and adjusting the vet won't make it stop being shit because the shit unit is prone to wipeseamimg it loses its vet.

+1

Pain in the ass that they can't really fix the deathloop

Maxims balance is hampered by its awkward mechanics.

Its a machinegun that moves as a wheeled vehicle. That makes positioning it always a problem. An order to adjust slightly to the side can make it spin around before setting up. There is also the usolvable death loop.

Having a maxim is always micro taxing because you need to baby sit it or you lose it. The vet1 ability just makes it more taxing because to fully utilize it you need:
1) LOS on the enemy
2) having it already positioned (it has longer setting up time compared to other mgs)
3) 4 seconds for the mandatory reload to complete
4) constant protection from flanking units to avoid death loops
5) Manually change targets with the attack command

Also this ends up shaping your combat around the maxim.

Concessions need to be made on behalf of the problem the maxims mechacnics. Either reduce the time on the reload of sustained fire or remove the reload all togheter. If not, make the ability available at vet0

What about:
Drop to 5 models
Increase Supression on the maxim to useable levels (as in a volks squad can't walk up to the maxim under fire and lava nade it frontally)
Supression only applies when maxim is in green cover (cons can build green cover so building a defensive position isn't an issue)
Vet 1 functions as now,but now allowing the maxim to suppress outside of a set up green cover position at the cost of munitions, requiring vet and needing to face
Vet 2 +1 man

The idea here is that the maxim can't be used as a cheesy attack move MG but can still be used to support cons early game with DPS and the cons can support the maxim by building a strong point. Vet 1 allows the maxim to be more mobile but still not attack move cheese.
The dropped model means its a bit easier to dislodge from garrisons to counteract it now actually working as an MG. Still harder to dog out than other units though.

Its not perfect by any means but it still keeps it unique and able to perform both roles. The synergy between the maxim and cons is undeniable and potentially offers a fun alternative to penal spam.

The unit needs to be able to do its job without vet, even if it's a slight bit more work this way it CAN do its job. Both jobs, defensive and offensive but not both at the same time and sucking at them to boot.

+1 on the vet requeriments dont help at all to the current state of the maxim.
I would say that maxims dont have to overperform in any way, but to be inline with other mgs at least for suppression pruposes.
The undeniable paradox for maxims is their durability. They are a 6 man squad on a team weapon that can be reinforced via conscripts (even though not many people use that ability at all) and at the same time the deathloop makes it very unreliable, or at least the easiest to flank of all HMGs.

The active ability suppression buff seems a interesting concept, but i would take it a step further, like other SU team weapons, paying a muni quota makes them unique. So for maxims i could suggest some of theese ideas, all of them on vet0

-Grazing fire. Maxims fire at will among the entire firing cone at the same time for a fixed duration, with extra suppression bonus. Suppressing all squads present but is not useful against vehicles. This ability could be primed and incoming troops will be shot even before seeing them.
-Make maxim able to sprint for free. Sinergises with ohhrah (that could alse be free)
-Rear echelon suppression like ability, targets a single squad but massively increases suppression.
-Scuttle. The maxim team is able to abandon the weapon (no one wants to steal it anyway) and return alive to base as conscripts with the same vet as the maxim was.
Coupled with this a lategame conscript buff could be added too, for an upgrade cost a conscript squad can get a maxim and become an HMG squad without loosing its vets. Mutually exclusive with the current mod 7th man buff.
-Give the to the last man passive ability from penals to maxims (somehow it could stop the deathloop?)
-Buff dmg/suppression to middlegrownd between high ROF HMG42 and high dmg Vickers.

Anyone feel something for giving Airborne Guards an option to upgrade two elite zooks, like USF Paratroopers?

Soviet Airborne is supposed to be a doctrine with a strong early-game focus, but meanwhile it doesn't have any counters to light vehicles like meta doctrines do (no M-42 or PTRS Guards). This makes the doctrine a risky option. This change offsets that a bit and gives a unique option to the Soviets. To make Zooks more tempting, make it so Airborne Guards can still upgrade Zooks once they've upgraded the free PPSH's. Secondarily, they could be given mines, camouflage or even timed demo's with it, like Paratroopers.

Anyone feel something for giving Airborne Guards an option to upgrade two elite zooks, like USF Paratroopers?

Soviet Airborne is supposed to be a doctrine with an early-game focus, but it doesn't have any counters to light vehicles like meta doctrines do (no M-42 or PTRS Guards). This makes the doctrine a risky option. This change offsets that a bit and gives a unique option to the Soviets. To make Zooks more tempting, make it so Airborne Guards can still upgrade Zooks once they've upgraded the free PPSH's. Secondarily, they could be given mines, camouflage or even timed demo's with it, like Paratroopers.

It sounds good to me, as in the rear of the enemy Special Forces, their utility is about zero. Let at least be a good antitank support.

Could they add reverse move to the maxim! That would be great

My idea: maxim set up time halved, no suppression, damage increased to 1.5x the damage of mg42 LMG
Sustained fire is a vet 0 ability, is now a toggle, changes damage and suppression to mg34 level, and reduces vision radius by 1/3rd

Idea is, maxim provides the damage in a maxim/conscripts build, keeping conscripts as a “utility” unit. Your maxims are also capable of suppressing large groups of infantry with Sustained fire. You can’t, however, have your maxims off 1v1ing squads because they can’t spot for themselves.

Im gonna copypasta this as a separate thread

Los wouldn't work because units that see the maxim would reveal themselves to it.

Los wouldn't work because units that see the maxim would reveal themselves to it.

Bruh I’m fucking stupid

And the coh2.org emote menu won’t open reE