Partysons interfering with the design and pacing of the game

The only issue is a more general issue of being able to pop out infiltrators whenever you damn well please. So either you waste time wiring and mining off every doorway or keep units in garrisons.

If it was restricted to friendly or even neutral territory, sure, but not enemy territory.

The 2nd and 3rd time you might not be hit as hard, but the 1st time on a building pop can be devastating as you haven't predicted your opponents lock-in, particularly vs support weapons.

I agree, its such a no-brainer thing....

Oh....I forgot about that ATG/Sniper/MG killing my units, now I will lose!

Wait!

Let me just pop a commando/partisan/falls squad in your back and nuke all your forces! Hahahaha!

So much tactical diversity!

For nosliw;. ofc you didnt encounter them coz they are not a thing in vCOH and if you had watched ESL you'd have known that Hansi loves his infl. commandos and Von his partysons.

I use Partisans in 4v4 whenever I can. These units are great, but have no staying power, must be worked into a team strategy, and cannot function as mainline troops.

If you are having trouble with them you need to post replays. Try garrisoning buildings of high importance. Be careful not to invest in light vehicles because a single AT partisan will pay for itself when it lights up your AC. The units really aren't that cheap. They are only 30mp less than a Gren and you basically cannot retreat with them because their reinforce rate is too high. They cannot merge and their DPS when they are not touching a unit is basically 0.

So much tactical diversity!

Lets ignore the fact that going for these commanders cuts you off from additional indirect fire/late game options.

The Anti Tank Partisans are awful design though. There is literally no counter play to a squad spawning out of a house and instantly throwing an AT Grenade after a Shrek shot for a guaranteed damage engine. They should have the AT grenade removed, or at least spawn with it on cooldown.

Lets ignore the fact that going for these commanders cuts you off from additional indirect fire/late game options.

Indirect fire like the ML20...oups "Soviet reserve army" the one of two the commanders with access to partisans comes with ML20...

In addition the new Su-85 is actually a late game option, so is the a need for additional late game options?

I will say the design of call in units that pop out of buildings is silly. Its a cool concept but both the ppsh 'partysans' / ATs as well was the 'fuljamwangers' are both dumb. They require no upgrades, no time on the field, and allow you to wipe units on retreat (or reversing tanks) without much skill or pre planning.

Their access to shreks/close range automatic weapons is their real issue but without them the units are useless. Both AT partisans and fallskjermjeger have access to an AT snare as soon as they pop out and as should receive a slight cool down on AT snare. AT partisans should not have access to a snare and should require you to deploy an AT nade before their deployment.


Sry for bad grammar, typing on my phone lol

I don't think you can make a thread solely based on your own personal negative experiences with the unit.

But then 99% of threads on this site will be gone

I will say the design of call in units that pop out of buildings is silly. Its a cool concept but both the ppsh 'partysans' / ATs as well was the 'fuljamwangers' are both dumb. They require no upgrades, no time on the field, and allow you to wipe units on retreat (or reversing tanks) without much skill or pre planning.

Their access to shreks/close range automatic weapons is their real issue but without them the units are useless. Both AT partisans and fallskjermjeger have access to an AT snare as soon as they pop out and as should receive a slight cool down on AT snare. AT partisans should not have access to a snare and should require you to deploy an AT nade before their deployment.


Sry for bad grammar, typing on my phone lol

It's a pretty frustrating mechanic to play against at times but it's important to keep in mind that no commander with infiltration units has any form of late game armor call-in. In fact the only late game abilities these commanders have come in the form of an arty strike (scavenge), a howitzer (reserve), and mark target (partysan), so picking a commander like partysans or scavenge means you HAVE to take the advantage early because you will be at a disadvantage later. In that regard I'm OK with the infiltration infantry being a bit devastating when they first show up because if you can outlast them you will have a strong advantage late game.

Some infiltration units (Partisans and JLI) are extremely cheap for what they offer. However, as Miragefla briefly explained, the issue is more general, and has to do with infiltration units.



That could be one solution.

Another solution which would allow infiltration units to spawn from any building, without being completely hair-tearingly annoying would be the following:
- All infiltration units spawn with default rifle weapons (like Stormtroopers), and NO ABILITIES
- In order to get access to their hard-hitting weapons and abilities, the infiltration units will have to complete a combat pack upgrade
- The upgrade costs NOTHING but takes 30 seconds to upgrade
- Infiltration units that currently get no stealth no stealth at Vet0 (e.g., Falls, JLI), get a rudimentary version of stealth at Vet0, similar to OST camouflage (if you move, the stealth is gone).

The idea is that you spawn your unit, you keep and them stealthed somewhere while you research the upgrade. Once the upgrade is done, you can use your unit as intended. This forces the player to pre-plan their infiltration attacks, rather than pull yet-another infiltration unit out of their arses in mid-combat.

I'll rather have this. On top, then you could balance the unit to be useful and cost effective besides just the alpha damage it could cause from spawning in.

It's a pretty frustrating mechanic to play against at times but it's important to keep in mind that no commander with infiltration units has any form of late game armor call-in.
<snip>

I understand that your concern is that if we "defang" infiltration units too much, the containing doctrines will be entirely undesirable. However, let's examine what's going on in these doctrines.

I think that's mostly #SovietProblems. The other 3 factions have a very complete unit composition (thus not relying on doctrines; OKW, OST), or achieve full-unit composition with that particular commander (e.g., Brits with the Land Mattress). Hopefully the new June patch will address some of the reliance of Soviets to doctrines.

Brits and OST have these units on doctrines with pretty strong late-game abilities:
- Elite Troops (Tiger Ace)
- Encirclement (That arty; which is a gimmick; which every other ability in the commander conspires towards)
- Mobile Assault (Land Mattress -- do I need to say anything more?)

For OKW you have:
- JLI, which are pretty damn strong, even if you can't spawn them from buildings (also VERY cheap considering that they CAN spawn from buildings)
- Falls, which have faust, which will no longer be as essential with the coming of Faust-Volks. Apart from "Valiant Assault" schreck-blobbing, I wouldn't see any use for that commander anymore.

Lets ignore the fact that going for these commanders cuts you off from additional indirect fire/late game options.

Like post patch new soviets suck at late game

I guess the OKW's arty barrage ,ML-20 and Land Mattress dont provide indirect fire, you use them as frontline units coz they have a few rifles to fire?

Also, how on earth vet 3 commandos and vet 5 falls/jaegers and ostwinds are useless???

It's a pretty frustrating mechanic to play against at times but it's important to keep in mind that no commander with infiltration units has any form of late game armor call-in. In fact the only late game abilities these commanders have come in the form of an arty strike (scavenge), a howitzer (reserve), and mark target (partysan), so picking a commander like partysans or scavenge means you HAVE to take the advantage early because you will be at a disadvantage later. In that regard I'm OK with the infiltration infantry being a bit devastating when they first show up because if you can outlast them you will have a strong advantage late game.

I fully agree with Cabreza, because after 10 minutes when you are not in total domination, you'll start to get some heavier times, since you are going to meet up more armour.

I agree, its such a no-brainer thing....

Oh....I forgot about that ATG/Sniper/MG killing my units, now I will lose!

Wait!

Let me just pop a commando/partisan/falls squad in your back and nuke all your forces! Hahahaha!

So much tactical diversity!

For nosliw;. ofc you didnt encounter them coz they are not a thing in vCOH and if you had watched ESL you'd have known that Hansi loves his infl. commandos and Von his partysons.

+1

The only honest problem with partysans - AT partisans AT nade. Because you armor could be pretty much annihilated instantly. Jump out of building, shoot schreck use AT nade and then roflstomp this tank with other AT partysans or AT guns.

And this commander dont need late game, because its allow you to deny your enemyes late game and armor. And even if soviet armor is quite bad, when it facing no resistance in face of any other german armor, it become good.

I would say - AT nade on cooldown after spawn, will mostly finx problem with this com.

I've never seen partisans in a game.

Perhaps after the patch reduces Sov reliance on doctrines they may come into use. I don't have a big problem with them, they certainly aren't a threat the same way falls are. If anything I'd say remove the ability to call them in from buildings in fog of war, nothing more than that needed for what is already extremely niche unit.

Few days ago on Kholodny summer, last big fight at the middle VP. I am on the east side. I had 2 ZISs, 1 maxim and supporting cons. And i am fighting against a KT, a Panther and of curse infantry ans support guns and so on. The fight is fierce, i can keep my opponent away from the VP and i am close to win the fight and the match.
And then, the miracle happens, a Fall comes out behind me (the small house north from my cut off) and wipes my two ZISs and the maxim in 10-20 sec. And 1 or 2 retreating cons (2- 3 models per unit, of curse low health because f=of the big fight that was going on). How in earth is this OK i wonder.
And you have problems with partisans?

What other people said, pooping out of Buildings is just wrong.
Maybe only in you territory baut should be it.

P.S. I won the fight on VPs, thank god

Lets ignore the fact that going for these commanders cuts you off from additional indirect fire/late game options.

Wow

Flamethrower engy (with vet 3 cheese)
Land matress, what do you mean by indirect fire?
Comet tank is non doc ))))))

Much limited options, such wow, very amaze

(I will kill for an OKW commander than can give me flamethrower, a rocket arty, or hell, something to remove those stupid emplacements late game like a Hummel :/)

----

IN all seriousness, the UKF infilt commando is not a problem. It is 440mp a pop, just like FSJ. The problem is partisan being a bit too effective in countering any form of MG/ static play because it is so cheap to jump out of building. At least that is my opinion.

That is one doctrine out of 7.

11 if we include paras and glider insertions.

One out of 7 to 11 doctrines.

Yeah, lets call it a rule, not exception.

That is one doctrine out of 7.

11 if we include paras and glider insertions.

One out of 7 to 11 doctrines.

Yeah, lets call it a rule, not exception.

I think he specifically referred to infiltration and partisans, the one that pops out from the building door because all cellars are linked to an infinite supply of soldiers.

- FSJ
- JLI
- Partisan
- Commandos
- Stormtroopers

))))

So yeah, majority of those doctrines dont count. If a 5 man commando squad got to your MG team, it just meant someone got outplayed

I think he specifically referred to infiltration and partisans, the one that pops out from the building door because all cellars are linked to an infinite supply of soldiers.

- FSJ
- JLI
- Partisan
- Commandos
- Stormtroopers

))))

So yeah, majority of those doctrines dont count. If a 5 man commando squad got to your MG team, it just meant someone got outplayed

That is still 7 docs.

2 for soviets.
2 for OKW.
2 for Ost.
And one for UKF.