Are grenadiers worth their 30 MP reinforce cost?

And they even take the same pops as Obers!

wat, the ober squad cost 10 pop in total. 2 per man and 2 on the squad

the gren squad take 7 pop, 1 per man and 3 on the squad.

Grenadiers can just really bleed you to death when you have to hold against an allied swarm of infantry while their medium tanks are already coming, of course become really potent, while also so fragile to literally every indirect fire. Since ostheer has already high teching cost with manpower, you kinda have to choose the right anmount of grenadiers, but i don't know if i would rebuild a grenadier if it's lost and rather go sniper, which vets incredible fast vs vet 3 squads of allies

Give em a 5th model, 25 per reinforcement man power and sandbags and there you go, not so shitty mainline infantry anymore.

wat, the ober squad cost 10 pop in total. 2 per man and 2 on the squad

the gren squad take 7 pop, 1 per man and 3 on the squad.

Oops, sorry man my bad.
I will delete my inappropriate thread

Give em a 5th model, 25 per reinforcement man power and sandbags and there you go, not so shitty mainline infantry anymore.

You forgot to rise the price to 280 at least or cut the damage by 25%.

Or buff con DPS by 30% to compensate?

edit: oh god, why are you even here? You're a full time comp stomper, balance is of no concern for you because you can just switch difficulty of AI...

I dont think Grens need a 5th man. I think the idea behind the higher reinforcement cost is in case of a smaller squad a single entity represents higher firepower. I mean if you have a single grens model, each member provides you 25% firepower, while in case of a 5 men squad its 20%.

So if i would change anything about Grens, its their received accuracy reduction. I think 4 men squads should generally have more received accuracy reduction. Except maybe IS, because they have an option to upgrade with a 5th man.

Grenadiers should be re-balanced to be a 5 man squad. Mainline infantry should be something you can rely on, not something that gets wiped by random explosions all the time.

Make an upgrade on tier 3 to buff health of green and pg to 90-100
(And make ober have it from the start for some ra nerf)

Grenadiers should be re-balanced to be a 5 man squad. Mainline infantry should be something you can rely on, not something that gets wiped by random explosions all the time.

+1. They are far too weak (on the resilience side) to be reliable. Most of WM troubles come with their inability to hold areas of the map without having MG42 setup there. Then the 30mp / model bleed starts, and the slow death is on the way. I do think that Wehr players would gladly pay 280 / 30 for their grenadiers if they were 5 men squads, and the end result would help the faction in 1v1s. The whole idea of 4 men squads at first was that their were "elite infantry" when compared to Soviets' conscripts, who cost the same, but have 6 men to compensate their poor model to model comparison. With WFA and now Brits, Grenadiers are no longer elite, even if they stand their ground verse tommies (before double lmg and 5th man, obviously).

+1. They are far too weak (on the resilience side) to be reliable. Most of WM troubles come with their inability to hold areas of the map without having MG42 setup there.

That is a problem why?
The faction is designed to rely on MG42 from get go. Grenspam strats are dead, because they were never intended to be a thing.

Then the 30mp / model bleed starts, and the slow death is on the way. I do think that Wehr players would gladly pay 280 / 30 for their grenadiers if they were 5 men squads, and the end result would help the faction in 1v1s.

Grens don't bleed more or less then any other mainline inf because of rec acc and their own firepower, unless you insist to fight in close range with rifles all the time.
Ost struggled vs early light vehicles, which was fixed by band aid 222 buff to boarderline op cost effectiveness in relation to any other light in game.

The whole idea of 4 men squads at first was that their were "elite infantry" when compared to Soviets' conscripts, who cost the same, but have 6 men to compensate their poor model to model comparison. With WFA and now Brits, Grenadiers are no longer elite, even if they stand their ground verse tommies (before double lmg and 5th man, obviously).

Wrong, the 4 men squads have nothing to do with them being elite or not, its to support army design of combined arms, you can NOT rely on grens alone, you need supporting units, either support weapons or command bunker/251 for map presence.

Grens never were supposed to be superior to any other infantry squad, so your elite argument desn't apply, they are supposed to be equal to cons and surpass them with weapon upgrades. Vs brits and UKF you have to use support units, just like UKF needs to do to support tommies.

The grenadiers die too fast in the game and it is easy to squad wipe the squad.

Every infantry squad in the game could have more space between each soldier. It irritates me more when my Obersoldier-squad gets squad wiped by a single grenade, because they stay so close together.

That is a problem why?
The faction is designed to rely on MG42 from get go. Grenspam strats are dead, because they were never intended to be a thing.


Grens don't bleed more or less then any other mainline inf because of rec acc and their own firepower, unless you insist to fight in close range with rifles all the time.
Ost struggled vs early light vehicles, which was fixed by band aid 222 buff to boarderline op cost effectiveness in relation to any other light in game.



Wrong, the 4 men squads have nothing to do with them being elite or not, its to support army design of combined arms, you can NOT rely on grens alone, you need supporting units, either support weapons or command bunker/251 for map presence.

Grens never were supposed to be superior to any other infantry squad, so your elite argument desn't apply, they are supposed to be equal to cons and surpass them with weapon upgrades. Vs brits and UKF you have to use support units, just like UKF needs to do to support tommies.

And Wehrmacht has no trouble in 1v1s, right ? Cf the last post where i uploaded replays (and i know you remember it well, since you went poof as soon as i asked you some replays to back your points). And CF the ESL post that sums it quite nicely. Whatever.

Grens are not a reliable mainline infantry, that is a fact. And every time someones gets an idea to make the unit / faction viable again, you step in and spam your garbage.

USF is a nightmare early to mid game. Sovs and maxim are in a much better state than WM has ever been. Only UKF is a decent matchup for the faction. Otherwise you have to fight a downhill battle for 40 mins to actually have a chance to get back in the game after a (faction dependant) horrid start. If that's your view on Wehrmacht balance, then you have no say on it.

Grens are fine expect riflenade, id like to see side upgrade and timer to the nade

And Wehrmacht has no trouble in 1v1s, right ? Cf the last post where i uploaded replays (and i know you remember it well, since you went poof as soon as i asked you some replays to back your points). And CF the ESL post that sums it quite nicely. Whatever.

Speaking of ESL, ost fare as good as OKW, they aren't any weaker then them.
You have that right there in the post you refer to.

Grens are not a reliable mainline infantry, that is a fact. And every time someones gets an idea to make the unit / faction viable again, you step in and spam your garbage.

If a car has flat tire and all the experts want to start from changing seats, upgrading engine and tanking jet fuel to fix that, then yeah, I'll step in.
It doesn't matter which side, if the suggestion is stupid, I'll gun it down as you can see in penal thread for example, where I'm opposed to most of mad ideas.
It just happens that there is more of these mad ideas from axis side then it is from allies as I'm not going to respond to any of aaa threads/posts.

USF is a nightmare early to mid game. Sovs and maxim are in a much better state than WM has ever been. Only UKF is a decent matchup for the faction. Otherwise you have to fight a downhill battle for 40 mins to actually have a chance to get back in the game after a (faction dependant) horrid start. If that's your view on Wehrmacht balance, then you have no say on it.

Ost has problems when the player tries to be aggressive.
You can't really be aggressive as ost, you're always responsive, just remind yourself how StephennJF played, how Hans plays. USF has no late game, so they need to be stronger in early and mid game.
Soviets, I'd hardly tell they are in better state then ost, they have their own problems, maxim is one of them, being the only valid infantry unit if you don't want to resort to early doctrinal commitment.
Ost had one huge weakness, lack of light armor counters, 222 buff removed that weakness and grens aren't supposed to fight on equal footing against rifles or tommies, you are supposed to back yourself with snipers or HMGs, if you don't, don't be surprised you struggle.

Grenadiers should be re-balanced to be a 5 man squad. Mainline infantry should be something you can rely on, not something that gets wiped by random explosions all the time.

+1, or let them atleast get the 5 man upgrade.

if greens become 5 man because of squad wipes, then, we should convert to 5 man squad JLI, and Assault engies from USF, and pathfinders and any squad with only four models...

Why greens but not obers??? why greens but no USF assault enginers????

if greens become 5 man because of squad wipes, then, we should convert to 5 man squad JLI, and Assault engies from USF, and pathfinders and any squad with only four models...

Why greens but not obers??? why greens but no USF assault enginers????

Because Grens are the bread and butter of the Ostheer faction. They have to take the brunt of enemy fire. Every other faction has 4 man squads that are fairly easy to wipe, but these units are specialist units. Other factions will always have a hard-to-wipe core of units that acquires veterency to keep themselves standing and build an army around. Only Ostheer has its mainline infantry as permanent 4 man squads. This just gives the faction a weak foundation to build on.

- %20 recieved accuracy at vet1. Problem solved.



5 man grens does not work with ost.

UKF have 5 man upgrade.

Hardly any streamer uses it, regardless of rank.

Can anyone explain to me why its not an issue for UKF?

UKF have 5 man upgrade.

Hardly any streamer uses it, regardless of rank.

Can anyone explain to me why its not an issue for UKF?

Pretty much every player uses that upgrade.

I can tell because I actually play the game.