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russian armor

Please consider removing infantry crush

27 Dec 2015, 21:19 PM
#21
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Dec 2015, 21:13 PMGumboot
Should be removed in base. Sick of Early tank crushing on retreating units. Zooks don't even come close to stopping it and would rather see a light At in bases to prevent this. Forward retreat points are fair game


Just spam retreat button in base, they will retreat over and over again and tank will do nothing.

As for the topic: crush is more than ok, I say it even though I lost countless times more soldiers to crush than I crushed myself.
27 Dec 2015, 21:40 PM
#22
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

It's fine when it doesn't become the main purpose of the tank, e.g. M10 & Cromwell.
27 Dec 2015, 22:08 PM
#23
avatar of NorthWeapon
Donator 11

Posts: 615

no no no no no no no no never
28 Dec 2015, 07:35 AM
#24
avatar of Lucas Troy

Posts: 508

It irks me that running infantry over with tanks works better in some cases than shooting them with the tank's cannon and MGs, but I don't think removing crush, or even changing crush, would be a good idea at this point in the game's development.
28 Dec 2015, 07:44 AM
#25
avatar of Shell_yeah

Posts: 258

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Dec 2015, 21:13 PMGumboot
Should be removed in base. Sick of Early tank crushing on retreating units. Zooks don't even come close to stopping it and would rather see a light At in bases to prevent this. Forward retreat points are fair game

Place 2-3 mines on your base entrances and it is solved.


t34/sherman/cromwell crushing is the only reliable way I can kill schreck blobs, so NO. Only if schrecks get removed too :snfPeter:
28 Dec 2015, 10:57 AM
#26
avatar of Carlos Danger

Posts: 362

Was thinking about this the other day. I feel that it's a semi-unrealistic tactic and is only really possible to do by taking advantage of infantry pathfinding and map geography under very specific circumstances. It's kinda like half-built sandbags denying cover - very close to exploiting a glitch. So I'd prefer to see it removed tbh.

Also, if infantry crush is realistic, why can't I just drive over deployed mortar teams and such? And why are only certain vehicles able to do it? Pretty sure getting driven over by a ten-ton halftrack would hurt.
28 Dec 2015, 13:49 PM
#27
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Trying to present infantry crushing as a L2P issue is wrong, it is not.
It is happen to higher lvl players, even with squad armed with Shcreks.

Check the final where helpinghans almost loses his Shcreks V.G to Cromwell around minute 17 and 30,5..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us_8AXwqzt4

I would not go as far as completely removing it, at would start by introducing some sort of better counter play against it for infantries. For instance hand help ATG and AT snares could slow or stun a vehicle briefly when used at very close ranges allowing infantries to defend themselves against crushing.
28 Dec 2015, 14:01 PM
#28
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Dec 2015, 13:49 PMVipper

I would not go as far as completely removing it, at would start by introducing some sort of better counter play against it.

We call them mines and only USF struggles with planting them.

For instance hand help ATG and AT snares could slow or stun a vehicle briefly when used at very close ranges allowing infantries to defend themselves against crushing.

You have the tool that works 100% of the time in preventing crush.
Select the unit and press T, there, crush hardcountered, not a single model will die under the threads.

Rest is anticipation and positioning. Hans made micro mistake, thinking he can pull of the rocket and overextended his time before the retreat, which had cost him models.

Infantry crush is the single reason why OKW players actually need to build anything else then volks.
28 Dec 2015, 14:07 PM
#29
avatar of MoreLess3rd

Posts: 363

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Dec 2015, 15:01 PMKatitof
Press T.

Here, infantry crush hardcountered.


tnx katitof for spoil the fun..now i cant never crush them infantry anymore :megusta:
28 Dec 2015, 14:22 PM
#30
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Dec 2015, 14:01 PMKatitof
. Hans made micro mistake, thinking he can pull of the rocket and overextended his time before the retreat, which had cost him models.
.

Hans did not make a mistake 2 squad equipped with AT weapons had to retreat because of the threat of being crashed by a single Cromwell while being unable fire a single shots and losing 4 model in the process.
jump backJump back to quoted post28 Dec 2015, 14:01 PMKatitof

Infantry crush is the single reason why OKW players actually need to build anything else then volks.

No it not try to play volks only against Centaur, Crocs, calliope, Shock, airborne, Quads,... just to name a few

And yes in my opinion Tanks and Tank destroyers like the Panther and M10 should not be able to threat AT infantry with crash and force retreats with little risk...
28 Dec 2015, 16:38 PM
#31
avatar of RedDevilCG

Posts: 154

I like crushing, but I wish the crush "rules" we're a little more understandable. It seems to be a lot of forward, reverse, forword, reverse with infantry dodging just fine. Then suddenly 2+ get crushed without anything seemingly being different.

Keep it in, but somehow make the mechanic more clear to both players.
28 Dec 2015, 19:31 PM
#32
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Should be removed on units with high acceleration, say above 2.5, which I think would only effect the M10, Valentine (does it even crush?), and Cromwell.
28 Dec 2015, 20:29 PM
#33
avatar of edibleshrapnel

Posts: 552

This is only punishing to blobers. If the player is not blobing he won't lose a lot of models, not more than what the tank would kill by simple shooting.
It can also be hard countered: snares and retreat.
And the best of all- another element of environment usability: find a part of the map with walls and push the enemy all the way to it- then... :hansREKT::hansGG:


Well no, we've all lost singular squads to a well played tank crush, don't misconstrue the point.
28 Dec 2015, 21:31 PM
#34
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 556

Ah okay....."not realistic", so the treat infantry men of yester war and today (ironically more so today with most tanks reaching 40+ mph) of being run over, buried alive (trench) or being crushed along with your weapon (support weapons) wasn't a real threat....boy I am glad I get my history from the coh fourms kappa. Now that's done, if you simply don't like it for balance sake then say it because you don't like it, don't drag "realism" (which your wrong anyways btw) to deliver your opinion, k I am done.

No I disagree with you, it's a way to punish a blob user for all factions.
28 Dec 2015, 23:44 PM
#35
avatar of kitekaze

Posts: 378

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Dec 2015, 21:31 PMGenObi
Ah okay....."not realistic", so the treat infantry men of yester war and today (ironically more so today with most tanks reaching 40+ mph) of being run over, buried alive (trench) or being crushed along with your weapon (support weapons) wasn't a real threat....boy I am glad I get my history from the coh fourms kappa. Now that's done, if you simply don't like it for balance sake then say it because you don't like it, don't drag "realism" (which your wrong anyways btw) to deliver your opinion, k I am done.

No I disagree with you, it's a way to punish a blob user for all factions.


Actually, most infantry was equipped with at grenade which can destroy any tank that got too close.

Hollywood movie and Relic games are exception.
28 Dec 2015, 23:55 PM
#36
avatar of SwonVIP
Donator 11

Posts: 640

I wouldnt remove it... you can easily avoid it by pressing retreat
28 Dec 2015, 23:56 PM
#37
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 556



Actually, most infantry was equipped with at grenade which can destroy any tank that got too close.

Hollywood movie and Relic games are exception.


Except no no they weren't, relic portrays that every single script, nader and rifle squad was equipped with anti tank capabilities is very inaccurate, ideal yes but realistically not close, at gernades in particular where also incredibly unreliable and most of the time ineffective. Even if you manage a hit it doesn't guarantee damage of any kind. Reason why modern army's relies on AT dedicated teams. The At Nade was a ww1 weapon used to eliminate slow moving tanks, much has change since the war, even in ww2.
29 Dec 2015, 00:01 AM
#39
avatar of LuGer33

Posts: 174



Well no, we've all lost singular squads to a well played tank crush, don't misconstrue the point.

I had a Vet 3, dual-Bren, bolstered Section in green cover behind the short wall next to the church (center VP) on Arnhem Checkpoint. P4 Command Tank charged through the wall, Section had nowhere to go, wiped.

Lesson learned.

I don't see the problem with infantry crush in general. While it is RNG-based to an extent, any experienced player knows which vehicles present true crushing threats (M10, Cromwell, Panther, etc.), and will react accordingly. It's incredibly micro intensive, so if your Shrek squad gets crushed by an M10 before getting off a shot (sort of like what happened to Hans w/ the Cromwell), then I think it's fair to say you left your infantry in a vulnerable spot and got outplayed in that engagement.

Crushing infantry is a pretty fundamental aspect of COH2's gameplay at this point. Don't think it is going anywhere, nor should it.

29 Dec 2015, 00:04 AM
#40
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15

i love driving a surprise sherman to a mass retreat OKW blobber base and crushing all his volks and a sturm too and maybe some jaegers or falls as well and being called a crush abuser

but anyway crushing a single squad when other supporting units can fire on you is extremely risky, theres not a tank that is capable of crush that doesnt die pretty fast to supporting AT besides the Panther and comet, and well you tell me how good of an idea it is to crush with a 175 fuel+ unit at that stage of the game with all the DPS running around :snfPeter:


And crushing squads that are alone vs a vehicle is fine too, not like it wouldnt have made it retreat eventually anyway. :snfPeter:
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