u want realism?
go play men of war
Annnnnd Welcome to the Forum
Posts: 1637
u want realism?
go play men of war
Posts: 66
u want realism?
go play men of war
Posts: 284
Maxim spam is easy to shut down, no snares, no scaling. I guess it's a matter of skill levels on the same way i say OKW is easier to play but not neccesarily better. I'm "afraid" whenever i see either no tech (con spam) or T1 openings than T2.
The reason is simple: you ever lose map control with maxim spam and you won't recover it. And to do that is as simple as hugging green cover, houses, flanking, scouting/crashing with SwS.
Posts: 1439
For the M3s: timing is everything.
Your flamer + m3 hits WELL before the first schreck, let alone the first 251 flak or puma. Even 1 schreck isn't enough to keep the car in check. The schreck can only be in one place, the car has a huge mobility advantage. Any lone squads are going to get picked off/harassed/bled, forcing you to play mainly around your lone schreck squad - and god forbid you lose it.
Every game that I open with M3s I get at least one squad wipe, generally more. Plus it gives CP and vet to either penals or your engineers. Vet 2 flamer penals are super hard for OKW to deal with because Oorah lets them soft-counter Obers while completely hard-countering Volks/Sturms.
I doubt I'd open this way in the current 1v1 meta, because the 251 flak is so strong against T1 openings, however I almost always open this way in 2v2s, and have my USF partner get Capt. Capt tech utterly dominates OKW Mech openers. In my opinion it is better to open 3-4 Cons into T2 as Soviet vs OKW in 1v1.
T3 and T4 are both quite strong against OKW, again because of the timing. If you have map control going T3 for a quick T70 or T34 can be extremely punishing as OKW doesn't have access to PaKs and Raketens just suck. Their Panther is going to hit long after your initial vehicle, and you'll have either ZiS guns or Jacksons to contend with the panther anyway. If you don't have map control, you skip the tech and fall back on your IS2s or T34/85s. T3 is going to be better in 1v1 than in a 2v2, because your USF partner is probably going to rush a Sherman anyways, there isn't much need for your T3 tank.
Shocks are super good against OKW because of the way all their weapon profiles work. You can close in on Volks extremely easily, you dominate Sturms, and with proper flanking you can do well against Obers. Of course you'll lose to the Obers if you try to run straight at them but with green cover/true sight/smoke it isn't that hard to get into close range, at which point you absolutely wreck them. Biggest issue for Shocks is the Luchs/251 Flak really. But neither of those units is scary for a Con/T2 opener.
Finally, OKW has literally no good answer for Is-2s - and tends to struggle against T34/85s. The Panther can keep the IS-2 at bay, but struggles to ever kill it, especially when you have to fear AT nades/mines/ZiS constantly. Meanwhile the IS-2 is running around 1 shotting squads, laughing at schrecks and getting to vet 2... at which point your Panther is absolutely gardened.
Not to mention, you literally cannot open with a forward med truck against Soviet. You will lose to 120s every time.
If you read my post more carefully (reading comprehension is important boys!) you'll see that I never called OKW a weak faction. In fact I clearly pointed out some issues where they could be toned down/redesigned. They're undeniably the stronger Axis faction but they're absolutely disadvantaged against Soviets in 1v1 and 2v2.
Posts: 1705
Hehe I know, but my point was that citing a specific tourney game as evidence of strat validity or balance is a very shaky leg to stand on. He talks about Wehr weakness in almost every post then cites a specific soviet game to prove a point. I was just showing that by that logic, Wehr is fine because Jesulin won the finals with them (I don't think they're fine fyi).
Posts: 142
Sorry, but based on my 1v1 experience I disagree.
T1 can be easily shut down by Luchs/ flack halftruck. Yes, you have early game advantage but if you have to completely dominate OKW player to come on top. If you don't he will punish you heavily. For me it's very high risk - moderate reward scenario.
Flack truck will cut you off from a part of the map and force you to fight around it and you aren't always able to destroy it with ZiS gun. When is heavily protected you'll have to wait for tanks.
Also every time you won't achieve squad wipe it's a loss as at some point OKW will reach Vet5.
Wrote by Ciez:
I doubt I'd open this way in the current 1v1 meta, because the 251 flak is so strong against T1 openings, however I almost always open this way in 2v2s, and have my USF partner get Capt. Capt tech utterly dominates OKW Mech openers. In my opinion it is better to open 3-4 Cons into T2 as Soviet vs OKW in 1v1.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Thanks for the heads up on Men of War, I had not yet heard of that game until now. Looks interesting from a few Youtube videos and I will check it out.
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Posts: 66
Its not, don't waste your money on it, he meant that you will not find realism in coh2, because its arcade rts, so asking for it is pointless and you'll hate MoW exactly because of realism, like we all did(don't know a single player who played it and still does).
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Posts: 1637
For the record, I know what he meant but decided to ignore its impolite character as unworthy behavior of the individual who posted it.
It would seem however that few understood what I wrote in my original post. Rather than a plea for realism let me say again that the range on the Panzershreck is the primary cause of OKW imbalance issues, Volkshreck blobbing, and the lack of alternative AT use. I propose it be reduced by 5.
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Posts: 1130
What really irks me is when I fire at a puma at it's REAR and it fires at the front armour of my T34. T34 still loses clearly.
The Puma has a large caliber (50mm?) AFAIR, but still: I'm shoting at it's rear. Isn't it off scale to a tank vs armoured car battle that the armoured car has so much rear armour it can outlast a tank?
Posts: 351
What really irks me is when I fire at a puma at it's REAR and it fires at the front armour of my T34. T34 still loses clearly.
The Puma has a large caliber (50mm?) AFAIR, but still: I'm shoting at it's rear. Isn't it off scale to a tank vs armoured car battle that the armoured car has so much rear armour it can outlast a tank?
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You're a joke i don't know how you expect me to take you seriously, take your craps somewhere else
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
I'll say it again, if there is an opening i'm not afraid from SU is maxim spam because it's easier to shut down in comparison to constant agression from Con spam, wiping M3 kitting micro or double sprinting snipers. I just like when people go maxim spam, specially on certain maps where i can easily block all the retreat paths with sandbags and you can't vault over them
Note: theres a difference between maxim spam and con with maxim support. I guess you are talking of going 1 or no conscript into 3/4 maxims.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I'm sorry, I knew truth allways upsets people, but couldn't abstain. So, sorry for upseting you.
And yeah, don't listen to CieZ, he doesn't know what he's talking about, why should we listen to best players in Coh2?
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I'm not saying that Ciez is right or not, so don't try to read between the lines.
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Permanently Banned
One - max 2 cons + 1 engie or 2 engies plus one cons. Plus mortar (preferably 120 for the OKW advanced structures - as CieZ mentioned) and Zis, into double T34s and later into something heavier (preferably 85s which I find to be a better option instead of IS2).
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
One - max 2 cons + 1 engie or 2 engies plus one cons. Plus mortar (preferably 120 for the OKW advanced structures - as CieZ mentioned) and Zis, into double T34s and later into something heavier (preferably 85s which I find to be a better option instead of IS2).
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