soviet defensive commander MG

It defo feels OP, that and Industry are the reasons Im only playing Soviet atm, (and I dont use them normally, I just dont like facing them).


If they want to keep it 0 CP so that you can get them in first few mins, I think it should be a bit more expensive, like the 120mm is.

If it cost say, 400mp, it wouldnt be as spammable, and taking it out early with a mortar would be much more rewarding.

400 mp will be fine since it is not only much better than any other hmg in the game, also it appears way before than mg42 so it can garrison key building faster.

Lowering its range to nade range has to be the worst Idea I have heard yet. That's like asking to lower the ostawinds range to that of at nades. Actually that wouldn't be as drastic since the ostawind would sometimes be completely wiped. It would destroy the entire purpose of the unit.

If they just pushed it back a single vp this unit would be fine. It's just too strong of a unit for the beginning of the game.

It needs to be 1CP. Stat-wise it is just fine.

With a conscript squad merging onto injured crews from the get go, now possible with the higher resources, this MG comes out much too soon. Move it to 1CP or change the stats.

0.5 CP Same as AGrens

That new CP system they had testing needs to come out. MGs need to come out as early as balance allows, due to weapon teams overall becoming much less valuable as the game goes on longer.

And the gun can be countered the same way German players told Soviets to counter the MG42 a few patches ago.

Seriously though, its range and damage should remain the same, but if anything changes, then its suppression should not be better than the Maxim's if it is actually better. Maybe tweak the arc as well. The DSHKs a weapon that fires bullets longer and of the same caliber as the .50 cal. It should have the range and damage. Not just for the sake of history, but the sake of placement in build scheme.

I keep saying this as well, but Merge isn't an all powerful ability. You have to use up a squad to merge and you often end up with a unit that's not worth keeping on the field. So if someone uses Merge to refill crew, that's one less unit capping or attacking. Merge is useful, but only situationally.

0.5 CP Same as AGrens

That new CP system they had testing needs to come out. MGs need to come out as early as balance allows, due to weapon teams overall becoming much less valuable as the game goes on longer.

And the gun can be countered the same way German players told Soviets to counter the MG42 a few patches ago.

Seriously though, its range and damage should remain the same, but if anything changes, then its suppression should not be better than the Maxim's if it is actually better. Maybe tweak the arc as well. The DSHKs a weapon that fires bullets longer and of the same caliber as the .50 cal. It should have the range and damage. Not just for the sake of history, but the sake of placement in build scheme.

I keep saying this as well, but Merge isn't an all powerful ability. You have to use up a squad to merge and you often end up with a unit that's not worth keeping on the field. So if someone uses Merge to refill crew, that's one less unit capping or attacking. Merge is useful, but only situationally.

I wouldn't mind seeing a change to suppression lowered to that of the normal mgs, but make it do a ton of damage.

0.5 CP Same as AGrens

That new CP system they had testing needs to come out. MGs need to come out as early as balance allows, due to weapon teams overall becoming much less valuable as the game goes on longer.

Yes well...the unit is clearly far too strong for 0cp so either you pick it coming out later or have it nerfed quite hard.

And the gun can be countered the same way German players told Soviets to counter the MG42 a few patches ago.

By quitting the game until a patch comes? Which is what happened, except a ton of those players never came back. Also atleast the MG42 never just slaughtered your squads in seconds due to a hilarious base damage, took more than twice as long to redeploy, didn't get AP rounds at vet0, didn't get sprint at vet1, and had 3 less squad members.

Seriously though, its range and damage should remain the same, but if anything changes, then its suppression should not be better than the Maxim's if it is actually better. Maybe tweak the arc as well. The DSHKs a weapon that fires bullets longer and of the same caliber as the .50 cal. It should have the range and damage. Not just for the sake of history, but the sake of placement in build scheme.

Seriously the ridiculous 2x maxim damage plus even more against armored targets needs to go. The maxim deploys needs to go as well, if anything it should deploy slower than the MG42. And the free AP rounds. But more than anything it needs to not come at 0cp because it just horribly breaks everything (especially on the smaller maps like langres) to be able to deploy these douches straight off.

I keep saying this as well, but Merge isn't an all powerful ability. You have to use up a squad to merge and you often end up with a unit that's not worth keeping on the field. So if someone uses Merge to refill crew, that's one less unit capping or attacking. Merge is useful, but only situationally.

You're missing the point with that. Merging to the DSHK means that it's a 360MP callin but only 240MP in reinforcement terms. Plus as long as you're only facing infantry (or in the dshks case as long as you're only facing infantry or light vehicles seeing how it literally kills scout cars in a second and fhts in two) an hmg on the field is far more valuable than a conscript squad.

Can one of the stat wizards please clear up a little, what the actual suppression and dps effectiveness on MG42/Maxim/Dusche actually are?

Im still a ittle unclear on whether its Maxim or MG42 that actually has better DPS or Suppression.
And then added to that, where the Duschegun stands in comparison to those.

Note: Im asking for someone who actually intimately knows the stat relationship on these units, not for anecdotal evidence or personal "feels" about from some random on them.

ive been too lazy to update the spreadsheet for this patch, but i can figure out the dshk numbers tomorrow. i do know the dshk sets up in 2 seconds though. maxim takes 1.5125 seconds and mg42 takes 3.

maxim suppresses faster than an mg42. mg42 pins faster than maxim. generally, suppressing faster gives the maxim the advantage here.

mg42 dps is variable. it has incremental accuracy based on the number of targets in its search area. maxim accuracy only varies with range. in most cases, this will give the mg42 a higher dps than a maxim. mg42 would have to have 8 entities in its search radius to do more dps at all ranges.

Ty very much Wooof!
You are my #1 favorite guy on this board and a true knight in shining armor.

The new MG has been pretty MEH in my experience. They have great dps, but are so easy to counter by almost everything.

Woof, Ive started a special bookmark folder for your posts, so I can reference them in future.

I have one more question though.

How does suppression and eventual pinning actually affect the DPS done to the unit that is suppressed or pinned?

The tooltips are quite confusing on this point and there are many mixed reports on it.

I've heard that it is really powerful then someone else says its absolutely useless (haven't heard an in between yet). So as far as what to believe im not sure yet.

I've heard that it is really powerful then someone else says its absolutely useless (haven't heard an in between yet). So as far as what to believe im not sure yet.

Just curious, but who has said its useless?

Just curious, but who has said its useless?

I've heard that it is really powerful then someone else says its absolutely useless (haven't heard an in between yet). So as far as what to believe im not sure yet.

It's basically a Maxim with better DPS and slightly better suppression but the same small arc of fire. Flanking it shouldn't be a problem but I guess German players never needed to learn how to flank as they never fought against previous MG42.
I still can't believe this thread exists as it's more of a Learn 2 Play issue rather then anything else.
People seem to forget about the drawbacks of this commander like very weak late game and the need of relying on SU-85 to counter German Super tanks.
I'm ok with 1CP change only if they get rid of every 0CP stuff. It's only fair.

I don't think this commander is broken either, yes it allows you to skip T2, but not without a cost of AT gun and weaker late game. Why won't we all move to the true silly stuff? Since Soviet Industry cammander's topic is heavily occupied I propose we all move to truly ridiculous commander like Tiger Ace that destroyed 1v1 mode. I know I don't play 1v1 almost at all but I've heard the rumors and have seen the evidence.

I think the DHSK should be somewhere along the lines of 0,5cp.

On a side note, the 0cp DHSK is the ultimate surprise for players trying to cheese you with assault gren spam. You can feel their rage when they send all their assault grens directly at your cut-off, only to get mowed down by the DHSK.

The only issue with this hmg is how fast can garrison key buldings while german player is still building his first unit.

The smaller sight conus doesn't matter then and it does a lot of damage at long range.


Just delay it a bit, as people suggests (0.5 CPs), and it will be balanced.

The only issue with this hmg is how fast can garrison key buldings while german player is still building his first unit.

The smaller sight conus doesn't matter then and it does a lot of damage at long range.


Just delay it a bit, as people suggests (0.5 CPs), and it will be balanced.

0.5cps? have I missed something?!