soviet defensive commander MG

Is it normal that this mg in the title, able to shoot throught everything, like the pak43?

thanks for the info gona abuse it nao!

This is not the case, at least from the game files: The Pak43 has ""ignore_shot_blocking": true," whereas this value is set to false for the Sokolov.
However, there are certain objects like that big hay pile on Langreskaya that can be fired through although it looks like you can't.

It is still very good, though. Around twice the dps of the other HMGs and around 1.5 times of the Maxim's suppression. I really like that commander although I think the mines are too good. I don't think the Sokolov is a big problem but might turn into one on certain maps or when there are too many but to judge whether this is the case, they'll have to fix other things first.

BTW, regarding tanks traps, there are tanks that can crush them like Panthers in vCoH?

Or the only way to pass through is destroying them?

BTW, regarding tanks traps, there are tanks that can crush them like Panthers in vCoH?

Or the only way to pass through is destroying them?

in description it said can be crush by heavy tanks i think, can't remember correctly, i guess panther can't crush it because it is not heavy tank

in description it said can be crush by heavy tanks i think, can't remember correctly, i guess panther can't crush it because it is not heavy tank

last time i checked, panthers actually have heavy crush, even though they are medium tanks.

This is not the case, at least from the game files: The Pak43 has ""ignore_shot_blocking": true,"

wat. That's a thing?

Units need an ignore_los_blocking tag. I love truesight, but man, if a unit is in range, in sight by allied units, and not behind a shot blocking object, units should be able to take their shot. I think the notion of units spotting for other units should be rewarded. Trees and buildings blocking sight is a great mechanic, but its overboard when every unit is bound to it separately. Entities should be on par with the player in what they can see.

I don't understand why these MGs should be better than Maxims, when they don't even require a tech investment as the Maxim does. It both pins and damages more than Maxim or MG42.

IMO this commander completely removes any reason to ever build T2, as it has both the best MG and mortar in the game.

Combined with tank traps and almost free spammable mines (that don't kill whole squads, but merely forces a retreat, as mines should do!), this commander turns the game on its head and makes the soviets much more flexible early-game, maybe too much.

I don't understand why these MGs should be better than Maxims, when they don't even require a tech investment as the Maxim does. It both pins and damages more than Maxim or MG42.

IMO this commander completely removes any reason to ever build T2, as it has both the best MG and mortar in the game.

Combined with tank traps and almost free spammable mines (that don't kill whole squads, but merely forces a retreat, as mines should do!), this commander turns the game on its head and makes the soviets much more flexible early-game, maybe too much.

Because these MG cost 360 manpower if I remember correctly. That's 120 more then Maxim and MG42. That's why they should be better. You deal with them as you normally would with any kind of MG.

This commander does remove the reason to build T2. You are correct. I believe this was the idea behind design.

You can use mineseeper against mines rendering them completely useless and loss of ammunition.

I recommend a dramatic reduction in duschegun max range, to the same as Gren/Con range. To limit its area control asymmetrically.

AI Mines to 10Munis to prevent spam.

Because these MG cost 360 manpower if I remember correctly. That's 120 more then Maxim and MG42. That's why they should be better. You deal with them as you normally would with any kind of MG.

This commander does remove the reason to build T2. You are correct. I believe this was the idea behind design.

You can use mineseeper against mines rendering them completely useless and loss of ammunition.

The problem is its ultra early availability. You can just go camp the enemy's cutoff straight away (Kholodny, Semois, Kharkov, Langreskaya).

The only early counter is the mortar, which forces you to sacrifice map control. Riflenades, Halftracks etc. require teching thus not being available early enough.

Does anyone know if they have the same crewstats and weapon health as the maxim?

I recommend a dramatic reduction in duschegun max range, to the same as Gren/Con range. To limit its area control asymmetrically.

AI Mines to 10Munis to prevent spam.

What's with all these rediculus nerfs. It's a heavy mg of course it should be better then a regular mg just like the heavy mortar. The real problem is just like most the problems in new commanders, it's should not be a 0cp unit. It should be 1cp just like the mortar and the at gun.

The problem is its ultra early availability. You can just go camp the enemy's cutoff straight away (Kholodny, Semois, Kharkov, Langreskaya).

The only early counter is the mortar, which forces you to sacrifice map control. Riflenades, Halftracks etc. require teching thus not being available early enough.

Does anyone know if they have the same crewstats and weapon health as the maxim?

You can have Maxim ultra early right now as well.

You can deal with it the same way you would deal with Maxim. Got the same weaknesses. It costs 360 manpower so it means less manpower to spend and every next unit will be delayed. 120 manpower is a lot. Half of the cost of Conscript squad.
Mortar is a hard counter to it as is anything good against weapon teams. Successful flank is more than enough to deal with it and you can still rifle nade it up front.

With the new changes to the starting resources you can have mortar squad right away and you won't sacrifice anything.

What's with all these rediculus nerfs. It's a heavy mg of course it should be better then a regular mg just like the heavy mortar. The real problem is just like most the problems in new commanders, it's should not be a 0cp unit. It should be 1cp just like the mortar and the at gun.

Reasonable, but I prefer my suggestion.
Even if its CP1, its still too effective.

For cost its better DPS, suppression, with a mid of setuptime and arc.

Imo reducing its range dramatically to a short range but extremely effective infantry support weapon is the way to go.

With range reduced, its asymmetrically aligned with Maxim and MG42. MG42 as a wide backline, Maxim as a fast offensive, Dusche as a shortranged force multiplier.

Reasonable, but I prefer my suggestion.
Even if its CP1, its still too effective.

For cost its better DPS, suppression, with a mid of setuptime and arc.

Imo reducing its range dramatically to a short range but extremely effective infantry support weapon is the way to go.

With range reduced, its asymmetrically aligned with Maxim and MG42. MG42 as a wide backline, Maxim as a fast offensive, Dusche as a shortranged force multiplier.

So you basically want this unit to be nerfed so it becomes useless? Why would you spent 360 manpower for something that's another Maxim?

As to its cost, that is justified because you can skip t2 entirely with this Commander as well as buildtime/cost for T2 and the build time for the units.

Sorry if you cant see that.

Thats the tradeoff.

So you basically want this unit to be nerfed so it becomes useless? Why would you spent 360 manpower for something that's another Maxim?

Excuse me? Useless?
Better Dps and suppression, no T2, midground arc and setuptime, Sovs 6man crew, has Ammo ability, is not enough for you?

Sorry but you seem to want a superunit.
Nope, sir.

Excuse me? Useless?
Better Dps and suppression, no T2, midground arc and setuptime, Sovs 6man crew, has Ammo ability, is not enough for you?

Sorry but you seem to want a superunit.
Nope, sir.

With range reduction you could rifle nade it without even walking into its arc of fire. Yes, sounds like a good change.
Oh and by the way it got better DPS and suppression because it costs 360 manpower. That's 50% more expensive than Maxim and MG42. I want something extra for extra cost.
Take the extra out from it and you have Maxim with different skin for 120 manpower more.

With range reduction you could rifle nade it without even walking into its arc of fire. Yes, sounds like a good change.
Oh and by the way it got better DPS and suppression because it costs 360 manpower. That's 50% more expensive than Maxim and MG42. I want something extra for extra cost.
Take the extra out from it and you have Maxim with different skin for 120 manpower more.

Lets count your priviledge, Mr.0 1v1s as Ost:
- Native AP rounds, same as Vet1 MG42.
- Arc roughly between Maxim and MG42.
- Better Suppression than MG42 or Maxim.
- Better DPS than Maxim or MG42.
- Same setup time as Maxim (near as I can tell)
(BTW, there is a bug here, it doesnt show the Desetup timer bar)
- No buildtime for unit.
- 6 man like Maxim, for 1/3 more survival than MG42.
- Can skip T2 and associated buildtimes/cost for both the building and the team itself.
- Is currently at CP0, for immediate deployment (though I agree this should be atleast CP1).

So lets compare to Maxim, specifically, since that is your concern:
- Native AP rounds.
- Wider arc.
- More DPS
- Better Suppression
- Also 6man
- Same setuptime
- No buildtime
- No T2 building buildtime/cost
- Deployable immediately.

It is in almost all ways immensely superior to Maxim, and its equal in the few remainder.
And you think that is not enough?

Sorry dude, but your bias is showing pretty strongly on this.

As to my proposal of range reductiin, it inserts it into the meta in a roll that is between Maxim and Mg42.
Very effective offensively due to setuptime, AP, 6man, better DPS and Suppression, and even a wide arc.
Equally effective defensively for the same reasons.

The way to fit this in its meta role, is to reduce its max range. So while it can perform both offensively and defensively as well and even better than its HMG equivalents, it needs to do so at a shorter range.

Beleve me, there are people calling dor MUCH more severe nerfs than this.
However I prefer my range reduction option, because it fits the Dusche into the overall HMG scheme, even with its excellent effectiveness, in a way that diversifies the meta by giving it a more restricted role to apply that excellent effectiveness.

You can have Maxim ultra early right now as well.

You can deal with it the same way you would deal with Maxim. Got the same weaknesses. It costs 360 manpower so it means less manpower to spend and every next unit will be delayed. 120 manpower is a lot. Half of the cost of Conscript squad.
Mortar is a hard counter to it as is anything good against weapon teams. Successful flank is more than enough to deal with it and you can still rifle nade it up front.

With the new changes to the starting resources you can have mortar squad right away and you won't sacrifice anything.

Bro, do you even read?

You can not flank it when it's put into a building at your cut off.
And yes I do sacrifice something by building a mortar early on, capping power thus map control.