soviet defensive commander MG

I will repeat myself. It's better than Maxim and MG42 because costs 50% MORE.


It can be countered as easily as Maxim. You can get mortar which is a hard counter especially when is very unlikely (I'd even say stupid) for a Soviet player to build T2 with this commander which means your mortar can shoot behind your lines without any threat in the form of enemy mortar shooting you back.

P.S.

I like how you didn't attack my person in the above post at all.

It can be countered as easily as Maxim. You can get mortar which is a hard counter especially when is very unlikely (I'd even say stupid) for a Soviet player to build T2 with this commander which means your mortar can shoot behind your lines without any threat in the form of enemy shooting you back

Excuse me what?

How can it be countered as easily as Maxim when it:
- Has a wider arc than Maxim
- Has better DPS than Maxim
- Has better Suppression than Maxim
- Has the same setup time as Maxim
- Has the same 6man as Maxim
- Has a Native AP Rounds ability that Maxim doesnt have
- Has the same range as Maxim
- Can be built without T2 cost/buildtime
- Is an immediate callin
- Is currently at CP0

Wow man... Like seriously wow.
Nice way to completely ignore the facts!

And the mortar argument? Same doctrine has 120mm, lol.
Whats evem funnier about your claim, is that the Dusche can xome our far earlier than any Ost Mortar.

Have you even once played against a Douchegun?

Ohh yeah I forgot about the heavy mortar.
You can still use mortar to do some damage though.

But let me follow your logic.

You want unit that cost 360 manpower (50% more expensive - I feel like I don't stress this argument strong enough) to have:

- Range smaller than Maxims and MG-42 so it can be rifle naded without walking into its firing arc,

- Firing arc equal of that of a Maxim,

- Damage equal of that of a Maxim,

- Less than 6 men in the squad?

- and you want this unit to be built from T2?

- and be CP2 at leat?


Seriously...

Excuse me, what? Are you even reading?

Ohh yeah I forgot about the heavy mortar.
You can still use mortar to do some damage though.

But let me follow your logic.

You want unit that cost 360 manpower (50% more expensive - I feel like I don't stress this argument strong enough) to have:

- Range smaller than Maxims and MG-42 so it can be rifle naded without walking into its firing arc,
Yes, I do.

- Firing arc equal of that of a Maxim,
Excuse me what? Where did I say that.
It has a fire arc GREATER than the Maxim.

-Damage equal of that of a Maxim,
Excuse me what? Where did I say that.
Maxim and Mg42 have 4 base. Dusche has 16.

- Less than 6 men in the squad?
Excuse me what? Where did I say that.
Both Maxim and Dusche have 1/3 more survival than MG42.

- and you want this unit to be built from T2?
Excuse me what? Where did I say that.
It can be built immediately, and subsequently without Tier cost or buildtimes.

- and be CP2 at leat?
Excuse me what? Where did I say that.
I said CP1 minimum.


Seriously...
Yes, seriously. Do you really have some kind of reading impairement?
I never claimed, proposed or asked for anything except the first one.
Jesus christ man, seriously, this is ridiculous.

All my wats, man. All of them. Ive never seen so many false implications and such a contrived misreadinf of someones post in my entire time on CoH2.org. All I said, was a max rsnge reduction. It boggles my mind completely that you somehow, in your imagination, actually, in any way or form, was suggesting even remotely in anything I have said, that any of those except the first was my proposal.

Moving to 1 CP would be fine. And the rest as well (soviet industry, elite troop training etc.)


btw I'm loosing everytime when I get pinned from this MG, instant one or two men.

Ohh yeah I forgot about the heavy mortar.
You can still use mortar to do some damage though.

But let me follow your logic.

You want unit that cost 360 manpower (50% more expensive - I feel like I don't stress this argument strong enough) to have:

- Range smaller than Maxims and MG-42 so it can be rifle naded without walking into its firing arc,

- Firing arc equal of that of a Maxim,

- Damage equal of that of a Maxim,

- Less than 6 men in the squad?

- and you want this unit to be built from T2?

- and be CP2 at leat?


Seriously...

Seriously? He only said the first thing.

I know Nullist here has a bad reputation on this forum and there was a point where I felt it was warranted but now you guys just troll him for the sake of trolling, which makes you a worse troll than you say he is, in case you didn't know.

So shut your mouth, troll.

This community seriously needs to get its shit together because with the way this game is currently going it's never going to get to a consistently playable state, nevermind balanced.

Excuse me, what? Are you even reading?



All my wats, man. All of them. Ive never seen so many false implications and such a contrived misreadinf of someones post in my entire time on CoH2.org. All I said, was a max rsnge reduction. It boggles my mind completely that you somehow, in your imagination, actually, in any way or form, was suggesting even remotely in anything I have said, that any of those except the first was my proposal.

These were the things you complained about so I assumed you have problems with all of them.

Range reduction is a stupid idea because as I said it would allows the unit to be rifle naded by Grenadiers OUTSIDE of the unit firing arc. Can't you see any flows in this logic?


When I pay more for a unit, I expect this unit to perform better. Maybe it needs slight dps output reduction, I let Relic balance team decide this, but any other change would render getting this unit pointless. You can have access to Maxim basically straight after game starts now. It's usually my second unit to build because I need and like this crowd control ability early game.
The firing arc of Dshka is the same then that of a Maxim which means whatever works for Maxim will work for Dshka as well. Get a flametrack or use two squads to flank it or just run straight up front and nade it with Greandiers as majority of Germans do with Maxim. Sniper, Mortar, Pioneers with flamers. It doesn't have firing arc as wide as Maxim so spread out your troops and flank it.
There is a difference between AP abilities of MG and Dshka. MG gets armour penetration and damage increase and Dshka gets only armour penetration.


@ MoerserKarL

You're talking about pinned units aren't you? If that's the case then no surprise there due to higher dps.


@ JohanSchwarz

Thank you for your kind advice. Can I suggest you do the same please.

Edit:

Dshka and Maxim range and arc of fire comparison:

Moving to 1 CP would be fine. And the rest as well (soviet industry, elite troop training etc.)


btw I'm loosing everytime when I get pinned from this MG, instant one or two men.

I totally agree. I can't stand all that 0cp crap. That stuff should be earned, that's what the xp-system is there for.

@Oz, please take your time and read through the whole tread again, thanks.

Oz, add me on Skype as Nullist.

There seems to be a problem communicating in written language, lets try in voice.

I totally agree. I can't stand all that 0cp crap. That stuff should be earned, that's what the xp-system is there for.

@Oz, please take your time and read through the whole tread again, thanks.

When moved to CP1 why would you even go for Dshka if you have access to Maxims straight from the start.
It does have higher dmg output but it's all about crowd control with these units, not dps.

When moved to CP1 why would you even go for Dshka if you have access to Maxims straight from the start.
It does have higher dmg output but it's all about crowd control with these units, not dps.

Simple, you can skip teching to t2 and save build time.

When moved to CP1 why would you even go for Dshka if you have access to Maxims straight from the start.
It does have higher dmg output but it's all about crowd control with these units, not dps.

Why?

Because you dont have to buy T2 to do it, because you get native AP Rounds, because you get better DPS and Suppression, because its instant callin.

Add me on Skype already. This is getting ridiculous.

I don't understand why these MGs should be better than Maxims, when they don't even require a tech investment as the Maxim does. It both pins and damages more than Maxim or MG42.

IMO this commander completely removes any reason to ever build T2, as it has both the best MG and mortar in the game.

this commander turns the game on its head and makes the soviets much more flexible early-game, maybe too much.

1. price , why are shocks better than panzergrens? price

2. its intended to do exactly that (remove need for t2, give flexible early game)

3. the tradeoff is no elite inf, no decent offmaps, no impressive lategame

4. the at gun it gives need outside buffs (like fhq) or vet 3 to be able to fight off p4s and up

Also you can write a note with the word "retarded" and paste it on your forehead if you think relic will reduce the range or make it 1 cp, it wont happen

Moving to 1 CP would be fine. And the rest as well (soviet industry, elite troop training etc.)

I agree.

0 CP units and abilities are killing the fun and the strategy in this game.

Who was actually responsible for the 0 CP call-ins? Was that Stefan Haines, the commander layout designer, the bright and new star in the RTS firmament?

Undo it. Please.

Who was actually responsible for the 0 CP call-ins? Was that Stefan Haines, the commander layout designer, the bright and new star in the RTS firmament?

Undo it. Please.

Yes please.

i think its fine as it is now also i dont feel ppl wil get a 120,, mortar anymore that fast and i realy feel the small at guns sucks donky ass as they can be one shot by any tank so 2 of them cost more then zis and is not nearly as effective. so that doesnt make you wanna skip that building

also if the sov player lose that mg and germen manage to pick it up he will probly curse at himself . so there is your trade off dont lose it early on

You want unit that cost 360 manpower (50% more expensive - I feel like I don't stress this argument strong enough) to have:

- Range smaller than Maxims and MG-42 so it can be rifle naded without walking into its firing arc,

- Firing arc equal of that of a Maxim,

- Damage equal of that of a Maxim,

- Less than 6 men in the squad?

- and you want this unit to be built from T2?

- and be CP2 at leat?


Seriously...

Are you trolling? he called for a range decrease only. Nullist may be a goofball but this is silly.

Are you trolling? he called for a range decrease only. Nullist may be a goofball but this is silly.

How can you call the God of Balance a goofball?
You shall burn in hell for your heresy