Petition to Nerf/Remove Soviet Mortar Flare

nah mortar flare is too good, it costs less muni than recon planes, yet uncounterable and you just need a tech building to deploy it

And to be in range. That's a critical component you seem to be leaving out its not on demand. It costs less muni than a recon plane because it has more requirements to fill.
This is actually why the flare on the ost FOB needs its cost reduced..
Its only lighting up a spot on the front line, just like all other unit linked flare abilities. Ukf, USF anbd okw all have recon passes non doc that can be used to scout arty. Ost has more units with natively higher LOS. Soviet have flares on their mortar...


Your vehemence certainly feels more like a personal vendetta than any actual balance concern. Did you lose a game where the soviet player used flares?

the whole it cost 30muni is weak justification. which flare and recon planes don't?

in the era when the concerns is back on sight abilities like spotting scopes, specs ops and sniper sight, it's cheeky that sov mortar was missed

even sov sniper needs vet to unlock flare, yet a more durable mortar unit got away

as i said, because of how low key flare graphical representation is, most opponents don't know what hits them in late game

whenever i play sov, i am very very happy to deploy mortar flare, such a cheeky give away

sov mortar is better than ost mortar, there i said it. what's cb going to do? hit back at katy?

Recon planes cover a wider area, most are off maps wich dont require a unit to be in range. Yes they can be shot down but again the area covered and ease of deployement is better. And if the opponent dont have aa (allies have less ai late game cuz axis have pintles on everything) its got free reighn.

If soviet mortar is better then how come it needed the flare to vet0 to help it out?
The soviet mortar didnt get buffed outside the flare vet 0. Its the ost mortar that got toned down hard. For 1/3 less hp it was minmaly twice as good in damage.

How so? You dont have downside of having 6 man crews unless you cap weapons. Regular mortar dies when you have 1 model left, meaning you have 4 spare models to have, unlike other mortar teams which have only 2.

Lets say you was attacked and lost 3 or even 4 models, you still have your mortar alive with original crew which is cheap to reinforce. Other faction would have get mortar de-crewed and would requare to re-cap it.

Even if you cap it with the engi squad, it would still cost you more to reinforce 3 models+1 model on the team weapon, then for soviets to reinforce 4 models of the original crew.

If, in your opinion, there is important down side, in having 6 men crews for your mortar, here is tip for you, do not reinforce you mortars to full and leave them at 4 men.
It is an option after all.

Yeah I sometimes only recrew them without reinforcing. Overall having 6 man is a survivability boost, but like I said, it has a downside because it will bleed you more.

This is a big difference to having a squad of 4, 5, 6 or even 7 (late game cons) soldiers since each of them raises your damage output too and drastically raises their frontline combat time.

Having more men at a mortar (behind the front line) does not raise your damage output. It makes you less prone to get fully wiped but more likely to get hit and thus bleed. I want to exaggerate to make it more clear: If you would have a mortar crewed by 30 soldiers, you would have a pretty much non decrewable weapon which still would fire with only one mortar and would be hit by every single counter shell or rocket because you can't miss 30 soldiers spread around a mortar. So six man obviously bleed you more while raising your survivability in indirect fire fights.

Edit: To make it even more clear: I never said having a 6 man crew is a disadvantage, it just isn't. I only said it has a downside.

I think all flairs should increase nearby unit vision for a time instead of giving the player vision over the whole area.

The flare should remain at vet 0.
Sure increase its cost maybe and give it a vet bonus or something, but it's an important tool.
It stays viable all game with utility, which is a core part of Soviet faction design.

In fact, I also think Soviet Sniper flare should be given the riflemen snare treatment. Instead of unlocking at vet 1 it should unlock at a certain tech building. Especially so now that sniper vision was rightfully nerfed.
So if you chose a commander with no recon plane, you're not shit out of luck.

Vision is extremely important, and no one is going to rebuild a T-70 in the late game, when the T-34 is not much more expensive and needed to fight Panzers.

And to be in range. That's a critical component you seem to be leaving out its not on demand. It costs less muni than a recon plane because it has more requirements to fill.
This is actually why the flare on the ost FOB needs its cost reduced..
Its only lighting up a spot on the front line, just like all other unit linked flare abilities. Ukf, USF anbd okw all have recon passes non doc that can be used to scout arty. Ost has more units with natively higher LOS. Soviet have flares on their mortar...


Your vehemence certainly feels more like a personal vendetta than any actual balance concern. Did you lose a game where the soviet player used flares?

Nope, i was against uncounterable flares for the longest time
just that being moved to vet0 is very strong ability in late games.

All flares are locked behind some tech vet. Why is mortar given a free pass? Considering that performance/durability of mortars are about the same across all factions now. strange to get this extra ability

Ost has which native units with higher LOS?

Nope, i was against uncounterable flares for the longest time
just that being moved to vet0 is very strong ability in late games.

All flares are locked behind some tech vet. Why is mortar given a free pass? Considering that performance/durability of mortars are about the same across all factions now. strange to get this extra ability

Ost has which native units with higher LOS?

A) Mortar flares are unit bound and range constricted
B) Pios have larger sight (normal unit sight is 35, pio is 42)
C) While OKW flares can be popped in any corner of the map freely, mortar flares require you to actually bring the mortar to the front lines and risk losing it. Hence why OKW flares are completely non-counterable while soviet flares can lead to bleed and lost unit.

Nope, i was against uncounterable flares for the longest time
just that being moved to vet0 is very strong ability in late games.

All flares are locked behind some tech vet. Why is mortar given a free pass? Considering that performance/durability of mortars are about the same across all factions now. strange to get this extra ability

Ost has which native units with higher LOS?

Mortar flares are not uncounterable.
You counter them by killing mortar.
Mortars are locked behind a tech.

Good change tho imo. The best designed doctrinal units work alongside stock ones instead of just replacing them outright.

I absolutely agree.
It's an excellent change.

Nope, i was against uncounterable flares for the longest time
just that being moved to vet0 is very strong ability in late games.

All flares are locked behind some tech vet. Why is mortar given a free pass? Considering that performance/durability of mortars are about the same across all factions now. strange to get this extra ability

Ost has which native units with higher LOS?

- Pio has more sight range.
- 222 has more sight range, especially with scope

mortar flares needs to be buffed.