Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

I would be really careful about buffing Ostruppen again, I know they probably still won't be absolute top tier in 3's and 4's but making them viable in team games typically makes them broken as fuck in 1v1's. The previous iteration already gave them some massive buffs allowing them to get LMG's early at BP2 instead of BP3, improving their accuracy with the LMG, and allowing them to build sandbags immediately along with build speed at Vet 1 similar to Conscripts. Giving them even more accuracy makes them too cost efficient. They are a 16 reinforce cost squad, 15 with Tier 4. I think the only faction cost wise that could trade effectively at all would be Soviets with 7-man but USF and Brits are going to bleed a bit too much having to charge Ostruppen who are going to be entrenched in green cover. Ostruppen are good on the current patch in 1v1 so I wouldn't look to give them much else since they will definitely be the meta again.

Mechanized getting the LeFh back seems like a weird choice to me. Like I think having 3 LeFh commanders is a good thing but I would’ve said put it back in Festung Support rather than Mechanized. Speaking of Festung Support I also really hope something can be done to make the forward resupplly station buildable without needing an ambient building. The repair bunker is really random in solving that issue.

On top of that Jaeger Armor is just gonna get to keep its AT strafe? This commander is massively over picked in team games yet we’re not gonna remove that ability? The sporting scope nerf was nice to see but the commander is still gonna be way to good unless the AT strafe is removed.

Beyond those I’m also a bit sad a few commanders aren’t receiving any love from the updates.
Joint Operations I honestly think is gonna suffer because it’s being overloaded with abilities that are so expensive to invest into. It’s rare to get a Pak 43 and LeFH 18 together in a match but now you also have them a third thing to get. I would’ve preferred seeing the PaK 43 replaced with the resupply station to leave the light artillery barrage in.
Mobile Defense still seems like the Puma timing is to late to where it just won’t be useful. I wish a faster timing was at least tried out rather than just never pushing it.
Close Air Support would’ve benefit massively from the Luftwaffe Field Officer also in place of like the AI strafe. You would still get that but also some extra abilities on the commander. It also fits really well thematically due to well, the ground forces calling in air support. It would give this underused commander at least a little more power.
Assault Support also could’ve probably used a small tweak because it’s overshadowed by the spearhead doctrine. Both have a Tiger and frag bombs as a big selling point but spearhead does this overall better. Giving it an off map that tackles a different problem (like an AT strafe so it can push away enemy armor rather than drag bombs which mess up AT guns) and you would help this commander imo.

Mechanized getting the LeFh back seems like a weird choice to me. Like I think having 3 LeFh commanders is a good thing but I would’ve said put it back in Festung Support rather than Mechanized. Speaking of Festung Support I also really hope something can be done to make the forward resupplly station buildable without needing an ambient building. The repair bunker is really random in solving that issue.

On top of that Jaeger Armor is just gonna get to keep its AT strafe? This commander is massively over picked in team games yet we’re not gonna remove that ability? The sporting scope nerf was nice to see but the commander is still gonna be way to good unless the AT strafe is removed.

Beyond those I’m also a bit sad a few commanders aren’t receiving any love from the updates.
Joint Operations I honestly think is gonna suffer because it’s being overloaded with abilities that are so expensive to invest into. It’s rare to get a Pak 43 and LeFH 18 together in a match but now you also have them a third thing to get. I would’ve preferred seeing the PaK 43 replaced with the resupply station to leave the light artillery barrage in.
Mobile Defense still seems like the Puma timing is to late to where it just won’t be useful. I wish a faster timing was at least tried out rather than just never pushing it.
Close Air Support would’ve been fitted massively from the Luftwaffe Field Officer also in place of like the AI strafe. You would still get that but also some extra abilities on the commander. It also fits really well thematically due to well, the ground forces calling in air support. It would give this underused commander at least a little more power.
Assault Support also could’ve probably used a small tweak because it’s overshadowed by the spearhead doctrine. Both have a Tiger and frag bombs as a big selling point but spearhead does this overall better. Giving it an off map that tackles a different problem (like an AT strafe so it can push away enemy armor rather than drag bombs which mess up AT guns) and you would help this commander imo.

If jaegar armor still have elefant, spotting scope and recon planes even with only this 3 skill it will still gonna be meta in team games

I assume because the weapon upgrade icon has a scope. I've asked the UI guys to remove that on all the "assault rifle" profile G43s. And to add a passive UI icon (similar to the elite Bren/bazooka icons) for the sniper variant on JLI.

This would be a nice stopgap, if nothing else. I'm reasonably sure some of the unit descriptions (Fusiliers in particular, i believe) describe G43 upgrades as "long range" focused, as well. If someone could go through the unit card descriptions/weapon upgrade information and make them less misleading that really would be fantastic.

Hell, I'll do it for you guys if you like. Do you have a plaintext of the current unit descriptions or anything of that sort? I'd be happy to go through them all and provide some more accurate information for players.

What should imo be included in the Patch

MOP
Reduce cost of flare it too expansive compared both to Soviet mortar and UKF early warning.

Yes! Make it cost 30muni, same range and visibility as Soviet Mortar's Flare and we are good to go!

Please, I really love the ideal of MOP but right now 50muni Flare is simply not worth it.

If jaegar armor still have elefant, spotting scope and recon planes even with only this 3 skill it will still gonna be meta in team games

It would still be strong but maybe not so overwhelmingly picked without a off map that wrecks vehicles. Like the other elefant commander might be a tad more pickable if Jaeger lost it's off map

anyone feels this commander patch changes too many things, hard to keep track and adjust my gameplay

Ironically other people think it changes too little lol.

I mean there will be a settling time after the patch is officially released where the new "meta" is adjusted so you'll get your chance then.

Why does the TIgerAce still have 13CP? Is this intended or just a bug? It only had 1 more CP than the normal Tiger for years. 2 CP difference would be completely unjustified.

I assume because the weapon upgrade icon has a scope. I've asked the UI guys to remove that on all the "assault rifle" profile G43s. And to add a passive UI icon (similar to the elite Bren/bazooka icons) for the sniper variant on JLI.

Good point, although the model has a scope I didn't think that many people would have looked at it that closely, but the icon might mislead people, and when that misinformation gets into shoutcasts the waters get real muddy.

As for the G43's weakness, while this might be extreme, what if the DPS profile was changed to that of the SVT-40 rather thna the M1 Garand? The SVT-40's damage curve would lend itself to improved mid and long range performance which could help the G43 stand out. The downside of this is that the Panzerfusilier and Panzergrenadier G43's might need touched up to prevent it from being overbearing. On the other hand it would give an opportunity to try the bonuses vs cover again.

Why does the TIgerAce still have 13CP? Is this intended or just a bug? It only had 1 more CP than the normal Tiger for years. 2 CP difference would be completely unjustified.

And it still consistently hits the literal dirt under the SU-85s for some reason.

I would love to see an osteer commander with assault grens and pumas

As for the G43's weakness, while this might be extreme, what if the DPS profile was changed to that of the SVT-40 rather thna the M1 Garand? The SVT-40's damage curve would lend itself to improved mid and long range performance which could help the G43 stand out. The downside of this is that the Panzerfusilier and Panzergrenadier G43's might need touched up to prevent it from being overbearing. On the other hand it would give an opportunity to try the bonuses vs cover again.

SVT profiles is actually bad because it too linear and that creates less difference with other weapon reducing the importance of relative positioning.

If one profile has to change that is of the SVT.

If one profile has to change that is of the SVT.

And its one profile that will not be changed, because there is no reason to, its a unique profile in the context of the army, giving unit a unique role and nothing else really matters here, other factions weapons are completely irrelevant.

This goes for G43 as well, it couldn't be any less relevant what other factions have, only what the weapon can offer within the faction it is.

SVT profiles is actually bad because it too linear and that creates less difference with other weapon reducing the importance of relative positioning.

If one profile has to change that is of the SVT.

Surely that means you advocate giving them M1 Garand DPS at close range? Of course the alternative is that their close range DPS remains the same but their mid and far range DPS drop dramatically, becoming even lower than Conscripts at far range, that couldn't possibly be what you're implying. The SVT-40 is fine, and the Jaeger G43 may benefit from a damage curve like it.

Surely that means you advocate giving them M1 Garand DPS at close range? Of course the alternative is that their close range DPS remains the same but their mid and far range DPS drop dramatically, becoming even lower than Conscripts at far range, that couldn't possibly be what you're implying. The SVT-40 is fine, and the Jaeger G43 may benefit from a damage curve like it.

My point is that linear DPS profiles are not optimal and Relic had a reason for using curves instead of lines.

Pls do not get me started about Penals especially since this is OStheer thread. (they are badly designed in sort)

At this point ostheer G43 is a lost cause and it would easier to simply replace it with a new squad.