Commander Update Beta 2021 - British Feedback

Yes, they are superior to the mainline infatry having more durability and DPS, no cover restriction, free weapons upgrade/grenades.

They also allow UKF to rush to T3 and get tank out without having to invest anything in infatry tech yet have access to all of it (bolster/grenades/weapons).

This isnt esoteric functionality, this is just them being arguably overtuned, then. IF they remain in their current design space, they should be made initially weaker and brought down to CP0.

Alternatively: They should be redesigned to have a specific role rather than what is apparently "better than IS", and still then come at CP0.

The current Raid Section should be something the Assault Officer can spec into, if it is truly just a "better" infantry section.

land matress need to fire its shell faster land matress sucks....

airlanding officer need more medium range he alot of times lose to axis officer when trying to close distance. unlike a sturm they can shred hp from medium rand and still do almost as good as rifle if the enemy isnt in cover.

infiltration commandos are expensive asf... please u have to buy the other 2 units cuz it only comes with 3! they cant even throw nades becuz they have a cooldown thats to long. falls can get fielded and throw grenades immediately. ive been noticing axis army does alot of little things that help tremendously and allies dont get those things

the vehicle coordination ability only really good on aec cuz u wouldnt want to nerf any other tank..

cruiser has no good damage for its survivability....at the same time of having no artillery to field cruiser need to be the main infantry killer. in team games brits suck big time becuz of this.

And in your opinion bolstered IS are not oppressive before minute one?

Locking behind Tier 1 help very little especially since the unit get weapon upgrade at T3 for free give more reason for player to rush T3 which is quite cheap for UKF if they skip tech (which in these case they do not need).

CP 0 raid section are simply OP regardless of commandos or which will probably see little action if one spams RS anyway.

The unit and commander has issues but further buffing one of the most popular commanders by giving access to 5 men section at CP will not fix any of the all these problems.

Well, Raid Section won't perform like a bolstered section because they don't have the Received Accuracy Cover Bonus so a Raid Section in cover will be squishier and partially negate any benefits of an early 5th man. Nevermind they can't build sandbags so any Raid Section Spam strategy will be at a cover disadvantage. You can also still Bolster sections fairly early so the theoretical time advantage isn't that great. The Vickers K also isn't free and costs 60 munitions and comes WAY later than STGs or LMG42. I don't know how new Vickers stacks up to BAR in terms of DPS but I don't think a Raid Section with similar DPS to a 1 BAR rifle at T3 timing is too good.

Another option is to lock the Molotov's to Mill's tech if tech skipping is really THAT oppressive but at the end of the day you're just talking about a squishier more flexible Section with a lower scaling ceiling. I don't think an earlier extra model with gimped Cover R-Acc is SO good that skipping tech is a complete no-brainer compared to current builds that may or may not skip bolster before medium tanks.

Well, Raid Section won't perform like a bolstered section because they don't have the Received Accuracy Cover Bonus so a Raid Section in cover will be squishier and partially negate any benefits of an early 5th man. Nevermind they can't build sandbags so any Raid Section Spam strategy will be at a cover disadvantage. You can also still Bolster sections fairly early so the theoretical time advantage isn't that great. The Vickers K also isn't free and costs 60 munitions and comes WAY later than STGs or LMG42. I don't know how new Vickers stacks up to BAR in terms of DPS but I don't think a Raid Section with similar DPS to a 1 BAR rifle at T3 timing is too good.

Another option is to lock the Molotov's to Mill's tech if tech skipping is really THAT oppressive but at the end of the day you're just talking about a squishier more flexible Section with a lower scaling ceiling. I don't think an earlier extra model with gimped Cover R-Acc is SO good that skipping tech is a complete no-brainer compared to current builds that may or may not skip bolster before medium tanks.

How are 5 men raid section squishier than 4 man sections or in a disadvantage in any way?

Why would any invest in bolster/grenades/weapon unlocks if one can get all this as "free" bonuses with tech for the majority of squads (his 3-4 RS)?

RD being CP 1 is the least of the problem with the unit or even the commander.

Extra models are extremely strong because it effects received damage distribution (more models more targets, less chance of models being burst down) and damage fall off from the squad as those models DO drop. 10% rec acc bonus in cover is great but it won't offset the extra that a model brings to the table that is incalculable

How are 5 men raid section squishier than 4 man sections or in a disadvantage in any way?

Why would any invest in bolster/grenades/weapon unlocks if one can get all this as "free" bonuses with tech for the majority of squads (his 3-4 RS)?

RD being CP 1 is the least of the problem with the unit or even the commander.

Because they have a higher received accuracy while in cover compared to stock Sections. Majority of time you're going to be using cover so 5 men with 10% higher Racc isn't as big as an advantage compared to 4 Men Stock Sections going to 5 Men with Bolster if the 5th Raid Section model gets killed easier. Yes Raid Sections will be better than 4 men in early game but they aren't so dominant that they are straight up better than the bonus you get from early Bolster/Brens on regular sections. (Which are straight up better when in cover) Raid sections also benefit from Brens so there is there is no reason why you wouldn't want to tech weapon racks - especially given the fact that Vickers comes so late. Unless you can show that Raid Sections in cover do WAY better than 4 Man sections when in cover before T3 tech then the whole "makes rushing tech too strong" argument falls apart.

Extra models are extremely strong because it effects received damage distribution (more models more targets, less chance of models being burst down) and damage fall off from the squad as those models DO drop. 10% rec acc bonus in cover is great but it won't offset the extra that a model brings to the table that is incalculable

That's fair enough and should be considered but the question is how 1 model vs. 10% rec acc really compares. It's a lot of RNG for sure but look at VSG Grens - people are complaining about that nerf AND VSG Grens get to keep their stock R Acc. If a 5th model was that strong then I'm sure it would still translate there as well but people are lukewarm about VSG now at best.

I really don't know why the mod team wants to shove raid sections into mobile assault. It's too much doctrinal infantry in one doctrine, and its not like you can replace your mainlines with either at current CP setups.

OST mainline replacements
Osttruppen 0 cp
Assault Grens 0 cp

Ost Elite
Arty Officer 2 cp
Stormtroopers 2 cp
Jaeger command squad 2 cp

OKW mainline replacements
Panzerfusiliers 0 cp

OKW Elite
JLI 1 cp
Falls 2 cp

UKF mainline
Assault sections 0 cp
Raid sections 1 cp
Tank Hunters 2 cp

UKF Elite
Commandoes (either type) 3 cp

The two things that really stick out are the cp requirements for Raid sections and Commandoes (and maybe tank hunters). If you decide to go commandoes, you usually end up playing with one squad less until you get the commandoes which isn't a good choice. It really seems like commandoes should have the same cp requirements as Falls, and any of the Section types should be 0 cp.

Allied elite infantry is generally a couple more CP expensive than the axis counterpart (Para's and Rangers at 3, Shocks and Guards at 2) (Likely to balance the fact that Axis mainline is intentionally a bit weaker) so Commandos at 3 is fine.

Tank Hunters probably should go down to 1. Con Tank Hunters got moved down to 1 iirc and I don't think that'll break anything for the Brits since they're pretty uncommon and it's rare you'd even want 1 that early I'd think.

As for Raid Sections I feel like you fundamentally cannot make a Mainline replacement at 1cp (Though it feels like Raid Sections are meant to be some weird hybrid? Probably because of essentially forced Bolster+Racks for teching purposes). It's too late and literally every single other mainline replacement for every faction is 0cp. That being said, however the hell you manage to balance raid sections at 0 cp is the question of the hour. Lock their weapon upgrade behind racks? Lock Thompson behind Bolster? Feels ultra jank but I don't think you can give a Thompson 5 man section at 0 CP yet you kind of have to introduce some relation to bolster/racks for them if you go that route.

The idea of giving British an Automatic Rifle type weapon is interesting, but the Vickers K is a strange choice because the Vickers K does not really lend itself to that style of weapon. It is an aircraft machine gun with a top mounted drum magazine, an added bipod, and no foregrip with which to hold it. I understand that choices are limited though and you can't just change the Bren without changing the entire faction... Or could you?

I think the Vickers K should remain as an LMG, but so should the Bren in most cases. Instead there could be an "Assault Bren" configuration for the Raid Section, Commandos, and possibly Engineers and/or Assault Sections; an icon similar to the Elite Bazooka icon will indicate the squad will use it as a mobile assault weapon. The Vickers K could also be an upgrade for Commandos fulfilling the role of the old 'Elite' Bren (and retaining it's Elite DPS in the hands of Commandos).

the Brits have no good option for Assault Rifle. Bren already has a cemented position, so changing Vickers K is much better, as most dont use it.

the Brits have no good option for Assault Rifle. Bren already has a cemented position, so changing Vickers K is much better, as most dont use it.

Admittedly I don't care one way or the other but it'd probably make more sense that the Bren would be the pseudo assault rifle and the Vickers K would be the LMG. That'd effectively just be a swap of models in the weapon rack and the special weapons truck right?

Another patch and still have huge with how the Brit lineup is distributed.
- Raid Sections still want to be shoved with a meta doctrine with another call in unit.
- Tactical Support will forever be a meme in all game modes due to FOP being immobile.
- Land Mattress is still only available in said meta doctrine instead of distributing it to other docs.

Speaking of FOP, maybe just allow UKF to build new building with FOP abilities?

I mean, its still munition heavy af to become OP, while as it was proven by soviet and now ost abilities which converts ambients into something, that it whould have buildable counterpart in order to be viable pick.

Because they have a higher received accuracy while in cover compared to stock Sections. Majority of time you're going to be using cover so 5 men with 10% higher Racc isn't as big as an advantage compared to 4 Men Stock Sections going to 5 Men with Bolster if the 5th Raid Section model gets killed easier. Yes Raid Sections will be better than 4 men in early game but they aren't so dominant that they are straight up better than the bonus you get from early Bolster/Brens on regular sections. (Which are straight up better when in cover) Raid sections also benefit from Brens so there is there is no reason why you wouldn't want to tech weapon racks - especially given the fact that Vickers comes so late. Unless you can show that Raid Sections in cover do WAY better than 4 Man sections when in cover before T3 tech then the whole "makes rushing tech too strong" argument falls apart.

That's fair enough and should be considered but the question is how 1 model vs. 10% rec acc really compares. It's a lot of RNG for sure but look at VSG Grens - people are complaining about that nerf AND VSG Grens get to keep their stock R Acc. If a 5th model was that strong then I'm sure it would still translate there as well but people are lukewarm about VSG now at best.

Extra model is more more durability than 10% RA in cover. One give 10% EHP only in cover and only vs small arm the other 25% EHP. Not to mention the extra DPS.

As for brens the is little reason to delay T3 for them since they do not fire on the move and one would only equip one of them or lose the Vicker K.

the Brits have no good option for Assault Rifle. Bren already has a cemented position, so changing Vickers K is much better, as most dont use it.

I've already addressed that with the "Assault Bren" configuration. Raid Sections and Commandos would automatically get the assault configuration when picking up any Bren.

Speaking of FOP, maybe just allow UKF to build new building with FOP abilities?

I mean, its still munition heavy af to become OP, while as it was proven by soviet and now ost abilities which converts ambients into something, that it whould have buildable counterpart in order to be viable pick.

There is an option already in-game which is just an upgraded Assembly that offers the abilities in Tactical Support. Unless you mean even cheaper and it's just abilities.

Any plans to look into command vehicle upgrade?

I know we've already made buffed speed penalty, but still -50% accuracy & slow rate of fire means command vehicle upgraded tank is not usable in overall. All other faction's command vehicle does not have such penalties (but again, yes command vehicle in UKF gives a lot better buff aura). Why not remove at least -50% accuracy penalty? Would be too imbalance?

Land matress needs to be in more doctrines or made no doctrinal, I am almost always crutching on said doctrine due to just how much it paints over UKF cracks.

Flamer engies, CQC unit and mobile arty.

tactical support can also use a mortar team call in as at 0cp it will be way more use full than 3cp drop. Say, like 0cp mortar call in replace recovery engineer, air resupplies operation roll back to include mg and at then recovery engineer can go to royal engineer replace flamer or crew repair with some minor teaks, like add a vet 1 critical repair (if replace crews repair).

And the mortar team must make it back to lend lease.

All other faction's command vehicle does not have such penalties (but again, yes command vehicle in UKF gives a lot better buff aura)

You've answered your own question there.

- Raid Sections still want to be shoved with a meta doctrine with another call in unit.
- Tactical Support will forever be a meme in all game modes due to FOP being immobile.

We're currently considering the following changes:
- Raid Section moved from Mobile Assault to Tactical Support;
- Recovery RE moved from Tactical Support to Royal Engineers (flamethrower upgrade added to RRE);

Both would be a better thematic and strategic fit.


And:
- Raid Section either moved to 0 CP as an alternative mainline similar to Riflemen, or moved to 2-3 CP as an elite brute force squad similar to 3x BAR Rangers.

I'm personally not sure which of the latter UKF needs more. The first would give them more diverse build orders and a different play style, but it'd overlap with Assault Sections. The second would give them a better option to fight Axis elites, against which IS can struggle late game.