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Commander Update Beta 2021 - British Feedback

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23 Apr 2021, 15:05 PM
#361
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 857 | Subs: 2

Can we please still fully remove the early warning flares?

While they are not a no-brainer spam anymore, they are still neither counterable nor do they need any preconditions. There will ALWAYS be an interesting front line sector for artillery. And on some big maps the sectors are still very large.

At the moment it is more like the "old" OKW flare with restrictions but cheaper.


+1
23 Apr 2021, 15:28 PM
#362
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

Can we please still fully remove the early warning flares?

While they are not a no-brainer spam anymore, they are still neither counterable nor do they need any preconditions. There will ALWAYS be an interesting front line sector for artillery. And on some big maps the sectors are still very large.

At the moment it is more like the "old" OKW flare with restrictions but cheaper.

What about changing it into okw overwatch flares???
23 Apr 2021, 17:20 PM
#363
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 359


What about changing it into okw overwatch flares???


Like vipper and others have said. Flares are uncounterable and need to be removed from all factions.
23 Apr 2021, 17:43 PM
#364
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



Like vipper and others have said. Flares are uncounterable and need to be removed from all factions.
So what if it is un-counter-able. You can't stop an off maps(unless it's aerial) from happening, you have to do what it wants, move out of the way or die. I don't really see how this is a valid argument.
23 Apr 2021, 17:51 PM
#365
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 472

So what if it is un-counter-able. You can't stop an off maps(unless it's aerial) from happening, you have to do what it wants, move out of the way or die. I don't really see how this is a valid argument.



Flare is really pain in the ass(especially current OKW special ops flare) because

1. it is uncountable
2. highly likely arty will come
3. force retreat/move unit in the area
4. sight advantage in combat

I'm with others that flare must be gone for good. In all factions. even ones that unit is required to shoot.
23 Apr 2021, 17:54 PM
#366
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563




Flare is really pain in the ass(especially current OKW special ops flare) because

1. it is uncountable
2. highly likely arty will come
3. force retreat/move unit in the area
4. sight advantage in combat

I'm with others that flare must be gone for good. In all factions. even ones that unit is required to shoot.

But off map arty is un counter able too.
If you have a howi there is no skill full thing you can do to prevent it.
23 Apr 2021, 19:07 PM
#367
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3118 | Subs: 2


What about changing it into okw overwatch flares???

I would not be opposed to this, although the ability should then be merged with something else since overwatch flares themselves are relatively weak
23 Apr 2021, 19:10 PM
#368
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563


I would not be opposed to this, although the ability should then be merged with something else since overwatch flares themselves are relatively weak
Its not that weak
23 Apr 2021, 19:51 PM
#369
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

Can we please still fully remove the early warning flares?

While they are not a no-brainer spam anymore, they are still neither counterable nor do they need any preconditions. There will ALWAYS be an interesting front line sector for artillery. And on some big maps the sectors are still very large.

At the moment it is more like the "old" OKW flare with restrictions but cheaper.


That would be fair and consistent. I'm saying that although playing more allied than axis. Any flare should be short ranged and bound to a unit.
23 Apr 2021, 20:03 PM
#370
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919


But off map arty is un counter able too.
If you have a howi there is no skill full thing you can do to prevent it.


This is needed. If howitzers would have something like brace or offmaps wouldn't destroy them their damage output or their range would have to go down drastically. Howitzer spam is real in big game modes.

And to be honest, there isn't much skill at shooting with howitzers either. Just click at opponent defensive line or base and pray to the god of RNG. The only skill you need is knowing the best place for it.
23 Apr 2021, 20:16 PM
#371
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 359

So what if it is un-counter-able. You can't stop an off maps(unless it's aerial) from happening, you have to do what it wants, move out of the way or die. I don't really see how this is a valid argument.


If you cant figure out the difference between spammable vision with no counter and a 5 - 10 second arty offmap ability, I'm not sure I can do much more here.

Remember, vision is of the utmost important in a game with fog of war. Artillery call downs can come from many different places with many different costs and their impact is much lower than a single flare 90% of the time.
24 Apr 2021, 16:29 PM
#372
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Flares attached to units are fine. Off map flares not so much...
There's a huge difference between maneuvering into position to be able to scout and being pushed into base and still able to see whatever you want for an off map or whatever (hyperbole of course but you get the point)
24 Apr 2021, 20:25 PM
#373
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167

Can we please still fully remove the early warning flares?

While they are not a no-brainer spam anymore, they are still neither counterable nor do they need any preconditions. There will ALWAYS be an interesting front line sector for artillery. And on some big maps the sectors are still very large.

At the moment it is more like the "old" OKW flare with restrictions but cheaper.


+++++
27 Apr 2021, 19:54 PM
#374
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 857 | Subs: 2

The changes for Brits are really good, I almost like them all.
27 Apr 2021, 20:05 PM
#375
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 179

First, thank you for making some real changes to the docs and adding some much needed indirect to the Brits. This is the first patch where I've really liked what I'm seeing for them, and gives me a reason to be excited to play them.

Immediate thoughts:

1) I'm not sure Mobile Assault needs the Land Mattress *and* the Mortar. Why not take advantage of this slot to use a unit that is only available in a single other doc, like the Valentine or Tank Hunter Sections? Or an ability like Smoke Raid Operation?

2) I'd really like to see more access to the Vickers outside of just Tactical Support.

3) Reworking Raid Sections as an alternate mainline is probably a good idea. Surprised there is no mortar support here even with the Smoke Grenades.

4) Moar indirect! Extra mortars are good, but it would be nice to see the Land Mattress and Sexton available in other docs to open up more team game diversity.
27 Apr 2021, 20:11 PM
#376
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



2) I'd really like to see more access to the Vickers outside of just Tactical Support.

Vivker K is available to Special weapons doctrine and a stock weapon to heavy sappers.


3) Reworking Raid Sections as an alternate mainline is probably a good idea. Surprised there is no mortar support here even with the Smoke Grenades.

Tactical support can airdrop mortars.
28 Apr 2021, 00:37 AM
#377
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958



Like vipper and others have said. Flares are uncounterable and need to be removed from all factions.


Flares tied to units are generally short ranged and tactical. They don't really cause an issue. The flare from Spec Ops was a problem because it was an infinite range one that lasted too long. The Royal Arty flares should probably go also.

Also, lots of things in this game are uncounterable. That's not a good measure for whether or not something needs to be removed.
28 Apr 2021, 00:40 AM
#378
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958

First, thank you for making some real changes to the docs and adding some much needed indirect to the Brits. This is the first patch where I've really liked what I'm seeing for them, and gives me a reason to be excited to play them.

Immediate thoughts:

1) I'm not sure Mobile Assault needs the Land Mattress *and* the Mortar. Why not take advantage of this slot to use a unit that is only available in a single other doc, like the Valentine or Tank Hunter Sections? Or an ability like Smoke Raid Operation?

2) I'd really like to see more access to the Vickers outside of just Tactical Support.

3) Reworking Raid Sections as an alternate mainline is probably a good idea. Surprised there is no mortar support here even with the Smoke Grenades.

4) Moar indirect! Extra mortars are good, but it would be nice to see the Land Mattress and Sexton available in other docs to open up more team game diversity.


The Land Mattress is really bad in it's current state. Both it and the Sexton need buffs so I'd rather not see them anywhere else until they are improved.
28 Apr 2021, 00:44 AM
#379
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658

P.S. https://gfycat.com/ko/hairymelodicblackfly this gif is probably the good one to back me up on how commander upgraded tank is useless in dealing dmg.


British Tanks have been nerfed into the ground which is why British have the lowest win rate because they under perform at all stages of the game. Mortar Pit is a failed experiment that simply doesn't work well.

Whermact/Okw will have some form of reinforce near Mortars/Leig and can keep pressure on the Mortar Pit until its destroyed. If they take damage from the Mortar Pit they simply just need to hit R to reinforce and keep the pressure up forever where the British have to reinforce and watch as the Royal Engineers get 1 shot trying to reinforce simply cannot compare.

British need

Universal Carrier able to capture territory like the Kubelwagon

Vickers Benefiting from Bolster - It may be the best at killing Models but sucks for suppression, the one thing you actually need it for.

Mortar Pit replaced with a normal Mortar. Mortar Pit can be doctrinal or added as into Hammer/Anvil and made to function like late game artillery alternative

OR

Tank Nerfs Reverted So that the faction can actually be good at one stage of the game and maybe they will be equal with other factions win Rate.
28 Apr 2021, 01:28 AM
#380
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2021, 00:40 AMGrumpy


The Land Mattress is really bad in it's current state. Both it and the Sexton need buffs so I'd rather not see them anywhere else until they are improved.


The Land Mattress isn't proper shock rocket artillery and has the stats to prove it. When we speak of "rocket artillery" we mean a platform that dumps a large amount of wiping damage in a small-ish area in short order. And their effectiveness is directly related to their ability to do just that without dying. Pwerfer is god if it can get close enough, double Pwerfer barrages are insanely lethal. Calliope is behind them, and is being nerfed SPECIFICALLY to reduce shock potential. SzF is much nastier vs bad players and/or massive team weapon lines who don't react/can't move fast enough. Again, shock = bleed (KILLS)/time/area. The Land Mattress just doesnt do that. Does not meet the criteria of shock artillery. The damage is not bleedy, nor quick, nor focused and is easily counter attacked. What it does is generate cover and deny an area. It takes 12 seconds to fire 30 rockets in a gargantuan area. Thats 2.5/second. The Pwerfer takes 2.625 seconds to dump 10 rockets, 4 per second. Calliope does 18 in 4.5 seconds, also 4/second. The only one slower is the Katy at 1.3 per second, but the first 4 rockets come in a super short period, about 1 second. Notice that magic 4 Rockets per second. Also, the Land Mattress's rockets are all weaker than any other rocket arti with significantly more AoE drop off. It does all of this with the single longest barrage cooldown in the game, 140 seconds. It can be fixed, just needs some tweaks.

Funnily enough, the new B-4 IS shock artillery. Each shell is just.... HUGE with no real warning.

Math on the Sexton shows its... alright. The biggest change it deserves have is what all of UKF needs: lower pop cap vehicles. Its pretty affordable, does reasonable bombardment into FoW. It just has the super small 80 dmg radius of all 25 lber shells, and British explosive projectors. All UKF equipment has slowly been reworked to do less bleed, they just need appropriate balance.

Its also the only arty that can effectively double barrage, which is extremely nasty with 2-3 Sextons. Though I would prefer the Valentine able to dump the call in and run, instead of sitting for 3 seconds.

I would cut the pop cost to 11 or 12. Maybe add a shell to emphasis its smaller, easier to shoot shell.

UKF needs some across the board pop cost cuts to its armor due to the loss in power over time. If the Churchill would be problematic, just cap it to 1.


Suggested Changes:
Land Mattress Near AoE->.35, Land Mattress WP Barrage made INCREDIBLY deadly and reasonably accurate. I know there is properly lethal WP in game, double the tick time. Munis for an actual shock artillery strike. CD for both to 120 or 110 (I suggest 120), in line with other rocket artillery. Scatter of WP -> Angle:10 Max:15 Offset:0.1 Ratio:0.156. I may have copied that directly from the Pwerfer. Also, instead of giving the Calliope a higher min range, just decrease its Mid AoE value to .35 from 5. That means 2 Mid shots are survivable.

1 pop off Cromwell (its between a Sherman and P4), 1-3 pop off Churchill (balance Croc independently), 1 pop off Comet (maybe), 2 off Sexton (it isn't anywhere near a priest or a real Howitzer in barrage value), 1 pop off Firefly. The massive pop reduction to the Bofors was INCREDIBLE for giving UKF a some-what affordable AA option.

The UKF population numbers are from release when all the armor was over-tuned. Now its just mildly suffocating due to all the required specialized units, especially with the need for infantry AND extra engineers for snares. Otherwise, move snares to IS OR make Royal Engineers good enough to replace an IS in build order.

I can't speak for the Centaur, I don't use it enough.
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Lady Xenarra: @Willy Pete The lack of April Fools this year is odd lol
Last Wednesday, 01:34 AM
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Last Wednesday, 00:16 AM
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dasheepeh: no comic sans font for april 1st this year?
Last Tuesday, 19:56 PM
Willy Pete: @Lady Xenarra this you? https://i.imgflip.com/3e4thi.jpg
Last Tuesday, 02:53 AM
Lady Xenarra: Does anyone else think that USF needs buffs? It feels like they’re on life support sometimes
Last Tuesday, 02:36 AM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone Ahh I missed that memo. I still think its a bad decision though. Adds frustration for players and isnt gonna make them that much money
27 Mar 2025, 15:46 PM
Rosbone: It is also good they left it free until after the free to play weekend. Points for that.
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
Rosbone: But I agree, the cost to get a full decent Coh game pushing $115 US is not the best idea. Especially when it needs so much more work for casuals.
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
Rosbone: To be fair, it was a thank you to early fans right? They said it was not free for long and it would become a pay DLC at some point.
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
Willy Pete: Re-releasing free DLC so they can charge new players money for it. Brilliant marketing strategy :clap:
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
Soheil: Coh2 still broken server ?
25 Mar 2025, 18:27 PM
Rosbone: Congrats to Relic. Looks like Coh3 has finally usurped Coh2 s the popular Coh. You smell terrific. :snfQuinn:.
24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
Nickbn: and again someone else replies. I mean come on guys. Give @adamírcz a chance
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
Willy Pete: @Nickbn you didn't ask a question, and this is a chat box...
20 Mar 2025, 13:11 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone it's incredibly rude to speak on someone elses behalf, especially when a question is directly adressed to them. I understand your passion for the subject at hand but I want to hear from him.
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
Rosbone: @Nickbn No, I am just saying people should not be using any Relic owned forum since they have proven they ban anyone who says true things about Coh3.
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone do you speak on his behalf? I didn't know. In that case keep us updated please.
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
Rosbone: #RelicModdedEchoChamber
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Rosbone: @Nickbn True except, the only people on the Relic Discord/Reddit/Steam are brain washed monkey zealots. They wont even understand what @adamírcz is talking about. Anyone else is banned.
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Nickbn: @adamírcz might be a better idea to voice this to relic directly than to voice it here, in a shoutbox of a nearly deade fansite #justsaying...
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
webdesign-muenchen-w: @Rosbone it is sick
14 Mar 2025, 22:09 PM
aerafield: @adamírcz aren't the first two disconnects free every day?
14 Mar 2025, 19:26 PM
Rosbone: It is so unlike Relic to punish its fans and community.
14 Mar 2025, 12:07 PM
adamírcz: So, I just got a leaver penalty without even getting onto the loading screen because of the game disconnecting, bravo Relic
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
Rosbone: It is an indicator of the very short sighted capitalist view that plagues any company where leadership does not understand the product.
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
Rosbone: They dont care about Coh3 or Coh in general. They are just trying to grab cash by ripping off the small user base they have.
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
Rosbone: Just making mistake after mistake after mistake.
13 Mar 2025, 19:57 PM
Rosbone: It is clear they crapped out an unfinished game. And are now barely supporting it as they make new smaller games. Coh3 is stillborn. It will be meh for at least another 2-4 years. Meaning they killed the whole franchise instead of growing it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
Rosbone: For a thing they could fix in minutes. Literally minutes.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: If I did play coh3 and was mainly a skirmish player, I would be pissed and probably stop playing. And it has been like this since release. Why? I would not tell my friends to buy a game I am not even playing. Lost sales and angered users.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: I am just saddened how Relic keeps hurting themselves by not fixing 5 minute things like menus. Why anger users with stuff that could be fixed in minutes???
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
Rosbone: I was wondering why people think I was raging. I think it was when I said "because coh3 sucks so bad". That was not my opinion. Just a general feel from top players/streamers. I dont play Coh3 and have NO opinion of it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
OKSpitfire: You can rage as often as you like btw, you usually manage to make it pretty funny.
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
Rosbone: So it was a systemic failure across multiple disciplines and check points.
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
Rosbone: Knowing how companies work, I imagine a new hire making the menus. The API they are using is complicated and things were hard to figure out. But at some point QA or management should have addressed these things. Usually within 6 months of starting.
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
Rosbone: @theekvn I dont hate Coh3 or Relic. I just dont understand how you work on Coh3 for like 7 years and the menu system is worse than if a Programming 101 student made it. Feel free to explain it to me.
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
theekvn: + 33% dmg rear hit was best deal ever.
12 Mar 2025, 04:00 AM
theekvn: KT just need fuel debuf from 15% to 50%, Ele arc of fire- aim time improve and they are good to go
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
theekvn: and please Rosbone,I know you hate Coh3 to the bone due to your drama with relic, Still, Can you give a proper point of view instead of raging ?.
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
theekvn: you rather go 76 to unity Whizbang 2.0 or go home.
12 Mar 2025, 03:52 AM
theekvn: also US tier 4 is 145f and Sherman pen 140 nerf is too much.
12 Mar 2025, 03:52 AM
theekvn: Whizbang lock behind CP, meanwhile stuka is techtree progress
12 Mar 2025, 03:51 AM
KoRneY: @aerafield It's possible that it is underpriced for what it is capable of now, no need to go full retard and take it immediately as a massive problem. It costs 60 more MP than a pz.3 and in 2v2 the barrage can be quite strong.
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like that they made the Stuka more expensive instead of nerfing it into the ground though. Found it pretty unsatisfying to use before that buff a while back....
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
aerafield: USF already is by far the shittiest faction in terms of countering blobbing and turtling, now they supposedly have one overtuned tool locked behind a BG and it's immediately a massive problem?
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
Lady Xenarra: I think post-2.0 Whizbang buffs, the price is too low esp since the Stuka got nerfed in cost too. Speaking of which, how exactly is one supposed to successfully dive this Sherman in disguise? Med tank spam running into SSFs?
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
OKSpitfire: A powerful, doctrinal unit that outperforms stock stuff? Colour me shocked! :P
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
Willy Pete: Cool you wanna lose your stock lategame arty too then?
06 Mar 2025, 03:20 AM
Lady Xenarra: WTB Whizzbang for DAK instead of Stuka, 5 fuel cheape, 60MP more expensive and next to impossible to dive. :rofl:
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
Rosbone: It is also hard to expect Relic to help Coh2 when they cant even make working menus in Coh3 yet, 2 years after release and at full price+ for DLCs. Thats like asking a fish to do calculus.
04 Mar 2025, 02:58 AM
Rosbone: But this last patch has made good progress for grabbing players. All we can hope is Coh3 gets to Coh2s quality level before everyone abandons the franchise. Its Relic so they will completely f*%k it up as usual. But its a hope/cope.
04 Mar 2025, 02:55 AM
Rosbone: Relic wants Coh2 to fail so players will migrate to Coh3. It is hard to blame them since Coh3 sucks so bad. It needs all the help it can get.
04 Mar 2025, 02:53 AM
Soheil: Coh2 is dead , full of map hackers , and lelic knows that but ...
04 Mar 2025, 01:26 AM
aerafield: Oh how I missed the weird spam bots, welcome back :banana:
03 Mar 2025, 13:05 PM
situsgbo777: Platform game online terpercaya dengan berbagai pilihan permainan seru dan peluang menang besar. Nikmati pengalaman bermain terbaik hanya di GBO777
03 Mar 2025, 06:48 AM
OKSpitfire: @aerafield that does sound familiar
02 Mar 2025, 09:06 AM

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