Commander Update Beta 2021 - British Feedback

Can we please still fully remove the early warning flares?

While they are not a no-brainer spam anymore, they are still neither counterable nor do they need any preconditions. There will ALWAYS be an interesting front line sector for artillery. And on some big maps the sectors are still very large.

At the moment it is more like the "old" OKW flare with restrictions but cheaper.

+1

Can we please still fully remove the early warning flares?

While they are not a no-brainer spam anymore, they are still neither counterable nor do they need any preconditions. There will ALWAYS be an interesting front line sector for artillery. And on some big maps the sectors are still very large.

At the moment it is more like the "old" OKW flare with restrictions but cheaper.

What about changing it into okw overwatch flares???

What about changing it into okw overwatch flares???

Like vipper and others have said. Flares are uncounterable and need to be removed from all factions.

Like vipper and others have said. Flares are uncounterable and need to be removed from all factions.

So what if it is un-counter-able. You can't stop an off maps(unless it's aerial) from happening, you have to do what it wants, move out of the way or die. I don't really see how this is a valid argument.

So what if it is un-counter-able. You can't stop an off maps(unless it's aerial) from happening, you have to do what it wants, move out of the way or die. I don't really see how this is a valid argument.

Flare is really pain in the ass(especially current OKW special ops flare) because

1. it is uncountable
2. highly likely arty will come
3. force retreat/move unit in the area
4. sight advantage in combat

I'm with others that flare must be gone for good. In all factions. even ones that unit is required to shoot.

Flare is really pain in the ass(especially current OKW special ops flare) because

1. it is uncountable
2. highly likely arty will come
3. force retreat/move unit in the area
4. sight advantage in combat

I'm with others that flare must be gone for good. In all factions. even ones that unit is required to shoot.

But off map arty is un counter able too.
If you have a howi there is no skill full thing you can do to prevent it.

What about changing it into okw overwatch flares???

I would not be opposed to this, although the ability should then be merged with something else since overwatch flares themselves are relatively weak

I would not be opposed to this, although the ability should then be merged with something else since overwatch flares themselves are relatively weak

Its not that weak

Can we please still fully remove the early warning flares?

While they are not a no-brainer spam anymore, they are still neither counterable nor do they need any preconditions. There will ALWAYS be an interesting front line sector for artillery. And on some big maps the sectors are still very large.

At the moment it is more like the "old" OKW flare with restrictions but cheaper.

That would be fair and consistent. I'm saying that although playing more allied than axis. Any flare should be short ranged and bound to a unit.

But off map arty is un counter able too.
If you have a howi there is no skill full thing you can do to prevent it.

This is needed. If howitzers would have something like brace or offmaps wouldn't destroy them their damage output or their range would have to go down drastically. Howitzer spam is real in big game modes.

And to be honest, there isn't much skill at shooting with howitzers either. Just click at opponent defensive line or base and pray to the god of RNG. The only skill you need is knowing the best place for it.

So what if it is un-counter-able. You can't stop an off maps(unless it's aerial) from happening, you have to do what it wants, move out of the way or die. I don't really see how this is a valid argument.

If you cant figure out the difference between spammable vision with no counter and a 5 - 10 second arty offmap ability, I'm not sure I can do much more here.

Remember, vision is of the utmost important in a game with fog of war. Artillery call downs can come from many different places with many different costs and their impact is much lower than a single flare 90% of the time.

Flares attached to units are fine. Off map flares not so much...
There's a huge difference between maneuvering into position to be able to scout and being pushed into base and still able to see whatever you want for an off map or whatever (hyperbole of course but you get the point)

Can we please still fully remove the early warning flares?

While they are not a no-brainer spam anymore, they are still neither counterable nor do they need any preconditions. There will ALWAYS be an interesting front line sector for artillery. And on some big maps the sectors are still very large.

At the moment it is more like the "old" OKW flare with restrictions but cheaper.

+++++

The changes for Brits are really good, I almost like them all.

First, thank you for making some real changes to the docs and adding some much needed indirect to the Brits. This is the first patch where I've really liked what I'm seeing for them, and gives me a reason to be excited to play them.

Immediate thoughts:

1) I'm not sure Mobile Assault needs the Land Mattress *and* the Mortar. Why not take advantage of this slot to use a unit that is only available in a single other doc, like the Valentine or Tank Hunter Sections? Or an ability like Smoke Raid Operation?

2) I'd really like to see more access to the Vickers outside of just Tactical Support.

3) Reworking Raid Sections as an alternate mainline is probably a good idea. Surprised there is no mortar support here even with the Smoke Grenades.

4) Moar indirect! Extra mortars are good, but it would be nice to see the Land Mattress and Sexton available in other docs to open up more team game diversity.

2) I'd really like to see more access to the Vickers outside of just Tactical Support.

Vivker K is available to Special weapons doctrine and a stock weapon to heavy sappers.

3) Reworking Raid Sections as an alternate mainline is probably a good idea. Surprised there is no mortar support here even with the Smoke Grenades.

Tactical support can airdrop mortars.

Like vipper and others have said. Flares are uncounterable and need to be removed from all factions.

Flares tied to units are generally short ranged and tactical. They don't really cause an issue. The flare from Spec Ops was a problem because it was an infinite range one that lasted too long. The Royal Arty flares should probably go also.

Also, lots of things in this game are uncounterable. That's not a good measure for whether or not something needs to be removed.

First, thank you for making some real changes to the docs and adding some much needed indirect to the Brits. This is the first patch where I've really liked what I'm seeing for them, and gives me a reason to be excited to play them.

Immediate thoughts:

1) I'm not sure Mobile Assault needs the Land Mattress *and* the Mortar. Why not take advantage of this slot to use a unit that is only available in a single other doc, like the Valentine or Tank Hunter Sections? Or an ability like Smoke Raid Operation?

2) I'd really like to see more access to the Vickers outside of just Tactical Support.

3) Reworking Raid Sections as an alternate mainline is probably a good idea. Surprised there is no mortar support here even with the Smoke Grenades.

4) Moar indirect! Extra mortars are good, but it would be nice to see the Land Mattress and Sexton available in other docs to open up more team game diversity.

The Land Mattress is really bad in it's current state. Both it and the Sexton need buffs so I'd rather not see them anywhere else until they are improved.

P.S. https://gfycat.com/ko/hairymelodicblackfly this gif is probably the good one to back me up on how commander upgraded tank is useless in dealing dmg.

British Tanks have been nerfed into the ground which is why British have the lowest win rate because they under perform at all stages of the game. Mortar Pit is a failed experiment that simply doesn't work well.

Whermact/Okw will have some form of reinforce near Mortars/Leig and can keep pressure on the Mortar Pit until its destroyed. If they take damage from the Mortar Pit they simply just need to hit R to reinforce and keep the pressure up forever where the British have to reinforce and watch as the Royal Engineers get 1 shot trying to reinforce simply cannot compare.

British need

Universal Carrier able to capture territory like the Kubelwagon

Vickers Benefiting from Bolster - It may be the best at killing Models but sucks for suppression, the one thing you actually need it for.

Mortar Pit replaced with a normal Mortar. Mortar Pit can be doctrinal or added as into Hammer/Anvil and made to function like late game artillery alternative

OR

Tank Nerfs Reverted So that the faction can actually be good at one stage of the game and maybe they will be equal with other factions win Rate.

The Land Mattress is really bad in it's current state. Both it and the Sexton need buffs so I'd rather not see them anywhere else until they are improved.

The Land Mattress isn't proper shock rocket artillery and has the stats to prove it. When we speak of "rocket artillery" we mean a platform that dumps a large amount of wiping damage in a small-ish area in short order. And their effectiveness is directly related to their ability to do just that without dying. Pwerfer is god if it can get close enough, double Pwerfer barrages are insanely lethal. Calliope is behind them, and is being nerfed SPECIFICALLY to reduce shock potential. SzF is much nastier vs bad players and/or massive team weapon lines who don't react/can't move fast enough. Again, shock = bleed (KILLS)/time/area. The Land Mattress just doesnt do that. Does not meet the criteria of shock artillery. The damage is not bleedy, nor quick, nor focused and is easily counter attacked. What it does is generate cover and deny an area. It takes 12 seconds to fire 30 rockets in a gargantuan area. Thats 2.5/second. The Pwerfer takes 2.625 seconds to dump 10 rockets, 4 per second. Calliope does 18 in 4.5 seconds, also 4/second. The only one slower is the Katy at 1.3 per second, but the first 4 rockets come in a super short period, about 1 second. Notice that magic 4 Rockets per second. Also, the Land Mattress's rockets are all weaker than any other rocket arti with significantly more AoE drop off. It does all of this with the single longest barrage cooldown in the game, 140 seconds. It can be fixed, just needs some tweaks.

Funnily enough, the new B-4 IS shock artillery. Each shell is just.... HUGE with no real warning.

Math on the Sexton shows its... alright. The biggest change it deserves have is what all of UKF needs: lower pop cap vehicles. Its pretty affordable, does reasonable bombardment into FoW. It just has the super small 80 dmg radius of all 25 lber shells, and British explosive projectors. All UKF equipment has slowly been reworked to do less bleed, they just need appropriate balance.

Its also the only arty that can effectively double barrage, which is extremely nasty with 2-3 Sextons. Though I would prefer the Valentine able to dump the call in and run, instead of sitting for 3 seconds.

I would cut the pop cost to 11 or 12. Maybe add a shell to emphasis its smaller, easier to shoot shell.

UKF needs some across the board pop cost cuts to its armor due to the loss in power over time. If the Churchill would be problematic, just cap it to 1.


Suggested Changes:
Land Mattress Near AoE->.35, Land Mattress WP Barrage made INCREDIBLY deadly and reasonably accurate. I know there is properly lethal WP in game, double the tick time. Munis for an actual shock artillery strike. CD for both to 120 or 110 (I suggest 120), in line with other rocket artillery. Scatter of WP -> Angle:10 Max:15 Offset:0.1 Ratio:0.156. I may have copied that directly from the Pwerfer. Also, instead of giving the Calliope a higher min range, just decrease its Mid AoE value to .35 from 5. That means 2 Mid shots are survivable.

1 pop off Cromwell (its between a Sherman and P4), 1-3 pop off Churchill (balance Croc independently), 1 pop off Comet (maybe), 2 off Sexton (it isn't anywhere near a priest or a real Howitzer in barrage value), 1 pop off Firefly. The massive pop reduction to the Bofors was INCREDIBLE for giving UKF a some-what affordable AA option.

The UKF population numbers are from release when all the armor was over-tuned. Now its just mildly suffocating due to all the required specialized units, especially with the need for infantry AND extra engineers for snares. Otherwise, move snares to IS OR make Royal Engineers good enough to replace an IS in build order.

I can't speak for the Centaur, I don't use it enough.