Tracking should be removed. Period.
....
Can anyone really disagree with that?
...
Yes but in another thread.
Lefh Counter Barrage Controversy
26 Mar 2021, 13:45 PM
#161
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Yes but in another thread.
26 Mar 2021, 13:58 PM
#162
Posts: 195
Tracking should be removed. Period.
If it's "not a problem, because it's a rare occurrence" then it's not a problem for it to be removed.
I'm not privy to CoH2's internals, but modifying and testing any code is more simply said than done. It's not unlikely that the specifics of Counter Barrage abilities are not accessible to non-developers. Trying to fix what isn't broken often actually breaks things.
These peculiarities are likely governed by lines upon lines of complicated code that few here if any can understand let alone modify. There are no 'free' changes.
26 Mar 2021, 14:03 PM
#163
Posts: 3117 | Subs: 2
Tracking should be removed. Period.
If it's "not a problem, because it's a rare occurrence" then it's not a problem for it to be removed.
If it is a problem. Keeping it in the game IS a problem.
Can anyone really disagree with that?
That's exactly the type of response I was pointing out:
You are completely mixing up defending something with putting it into perspective.
Why I think this appears often. I have two videos. One showing a live game where this happened and the second showcasing a entirely possible live scenario. Also just from playing the game and being a bit dumbfounded as to why my units were being attacked AFTER I moved them. And on top of that countless replies of other players experiencing the same. Bearing in mind. This also applies to a retreating mortar team. An example would be retreating to a forward HQ. The leFH will track that mortar team back to the HQ.
I cancel my barrages all the time. Missing my shot, seeing an enemy on it's way, miss click, start the cooldown sooner etc.
I don't feel that "what usually happens anyway is X" is a valid reasoning for not fixing a possible bug.
Valid points. Maybe I am underestimating it, might be. However even in retrospective I did not have the impression that my units are being tracked often or more so getting damage because of it.
26 Mar 2021, 14:52 PM
#164
Posts: 570 | Subs: 1
Tracking should be removed. Period.
If it's "not a problem, because it's a rare occurrence" then it's not a problem for it to be removed.
If it is a problem. Keeping it in the game IS a problem.
Can anyone really disagree with that?
Why I think this appears often. I have two videos. One showing a live game where this happened and the second showcasing a entirely possible live scenario. Also just from playing the game and being a bit dumbfounded as to why my units were being attacked AFTER I moved them. And on top of that countless replies of other players experiencing the same. Bearing in mind. This also applies to a retreating mortar team. An example would be retreating to a forward HQ. The leFH will track that mortar team back to the HQ.
I cancel my barrages all the time. Missing my shot, seeing an enemy on it's way, miss click, start the cooldown sooner etc.
I don't feel that "what usually happens anyway is X" is a valid reasoning for not fixing a possible bug.
I saw that livegame vid, can you post the POV of the gun itself actually moving to track it. For all i know it couldve been an extremely lucky scatter at the near end range of the lefh. Esp since you didnt move very far since the circle widens significantly and all.
Edit: not that im saying the tracking should stay a bugs a bug and needs to be squashed.
26 Mar 2021, 15:07 PM
#165
Posts: 10
I saw that livegame vid, can you post the POV of the gun itself actually moving to track it. For all i know it couldve been an extremely lucky scatter at the near end range of the lefh. Esp since you didnt move very far since the circle widens significantly and all.
Edit: not that im saying the tracking should stay a bugs a bug and needs to be squashed.
Unfortunatly I don't have the replay anymore. But as a reddit user pointed out. If you pay attention to the LeFH icon in the top left. At roughly 18 seconds you can see the yellow bar indicating that the LeFH has finished traversing and is ready to fire. This happens just as the Katy stops moving.
As for the scatter. Reddit user gtavlevland argued that same point and I further tested the scatter in fog of war at max range (See the video in the first post) and it would not have hit the katy in the live game scenario.
With both those points in mind. The LeFH did not engage the Katy's original firing position. It tracked it into the fog of war until the arc met the Katy THEN begun it's counter barrage. Which is not okay. Which was the whole point in further testing. Albeit quite extreme testing, yet still relevant.
But as you say. Even if I'm completely wrong and the LeFH did indeed just get lucky. The LeFH obviously tracks, nobody can dispute that now. And that needs to be squashed.
26 Mar 2021, 16:41 PM
#166
Posts: 5279
Valid points. Maybe I am underestimating it, might be. However even in retrospective I did not have the impression that my units are being tracked often or more so getting damage because of it.
i dont think anyone did. i know myself ive had it happen to me (in retrospect) and consciously disqualified it as outrageous scatter and not having moved far enough away because the idea of it tracking was inconceivable
#stalinwept
26 Mar 2021, 18:35 PM
#167
Posts: 359
i dont think anyone did. i know myself ive had it happen to me (in retrospect) and consciously disqualified it as outrageous scatter and not having moved far enough away because the idea of it tracking was inconceivable
+1
Panzer tactician is no different than a skill shot. Hardly a "Free" get out of jail card.
27 Mar 2021, 00:59 AM
#168
Posts: 1515
CB on it's own is not OP or anything. The tracking part is. I don't think anyone cares if the ability requires 2 or 3 clicks or w/e. However, since most teamgame maps are lane-y, CB can effectively barrage a large area, further amplified by the LeFH range (most 3v3 maps it can cover the whole map). It can easily lock out any sort of mortar or howitzer or mobile barraging unit play. Most of my games, playing vs LeFH, the shells landed a couple of seconds into the barrage, so it's quite a fast reaction too (again, lane-y nature means not a lot of rotation for the lefh).
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
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27 Mar 2021, 08:57 AM
#169
Posts: 789
The only thing CB tracking is useful against is Katyushas when they fire only the first salvo and then drive away.
Mortars and Land mattress can’t move quick enough to make the tracking matter (because of their long ass barrages, pack up time and slow movement speed) as compared to just manually targeting the unit when it fires
Caliope can survive 4 medium tanks shots. If you loose this thing to CB then you are hopeless
Versus Sexton and Priest, they are also fixed in position when firing because the barrage takes time to complete. So the tracking isn’t much help unless they immediately cancel the barrage after 1 shot. Plus, even a direct hit won’t kill them so what’s the point
ML20 is stationary. Tracking ain’t gonna do sh*t to help the lefh
Keep in mind that just because you see a lot of people using it, doesn’t mean it’s OP
If we take that logic then sweepers are OP because everyone uses them
disprove my logic
Mortars and Land mattress can’t move quick enough to make the tracking matter (because of their long ass barrages, pack up time and slow movement speed) as compared to just manually targeting the unit when it fires
Caliope can survive 4 medium tanks shots. If you loose this thing to CB then you are hopeless
Versus Sexton and Priest, they are also fixed in position when firing because the barrage takes time to complete. So the tracking isn’t much help unless they immediately cancel the barrage after 1 shot. Plus, even a direct hit won’t kill them so what’s the point
ML20 is stationary. Tracking ain’t gonna do sh*t to help the lefh
Keep in mind that just because you see a lot of people using it, doesn’t mean it’s OP
If we take that logic then sweepers are OP because everyone uses them
disprove my logic
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
27 Mar 2021, 09:05 AM
#170
Posts: 366
The only thing CB tracking is useful against is Katyushas when they fire only the first salvo and then drive away.
Mortars and Land mattress can’t move quick enough to make the tracking matter (because of their long ass barrages, pack up time and slow movement speed) as compared to just manually targeting the unit when it fires
Caliope can survive 4 medium tanks shots. If you loose this thing to CB then you are hopeless
With mortars teams, if specifically about tracking, if you councel your barrage they aren't tracked. This is to prevent the lefh chasing them across the map (all through you only need to tear it down).
Also Caliope will die to 2 round from cb, the only unit it's higher damage really help.
27 Mar 2021, 09:11 AM
#171
Posts: 789
With mortars teams, if specifically about tracking, if you councel your barrage they aren't tracked. This is to prevent the lefh chasing them across the map (all through you only need to tear it down).
Also Caliope will die to 2 round from cb, the only unit it's higher damage really help.
All the way across the map can’t happen.. Eg. Mortar fires -> mortar immediately packs up and starts walking away -> LefH tracks it Untill it fires its first shot, then it keeps attacking the same spot
How far is your mortar going to move in the time it takes the lefh to aim
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
27 Mar 2021, 09:19 AM
#172
Posts: 366
All the way across the map can’t happen.. Eg. Mortar fires -> mortar immediately packs up and starts walking away -> LefH tracks it Untill it fires its first shot, then it keeps attacking the same spot
How far is your mortar going to move in the time it takes the lefh to aim
The Lefh cb tracks it to its barrage origin but not the mortar team. As I said it's likely to prevent the lefh from tracking the mortar when its retreating.
27 Mar 2021, 19:40 PM
#173
Posts: 4474
honestly speaking i would not mind an entire rework to decided an area where it oversees and if u shoot from outside it does nothing, as along as mobile SPG (sexton and priest) exist the CB is a necessity
anyway the tracking should be removed, it should only fire where it started the barrage
anyway the tracking should be removed, it should only fire where it started the barrage
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
27 Mar 2021, 21:15 PM
#174
Posts: 10
The Lefh cb tracks it to its barrage origin but not the mortar team. As I said it's likely to prevent the lefh from tracking the mortar when its retreating.
Incorrect
27 Mar 2021, 21:52 PM
#175
Posts: 770
Simply do not use artillery if you have a problem with counter barrage. Artillery is for the most part a cancer in this game and the less reason to use it the better
27 Mar 2021, 22:08 PM
#176
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Simply do not use artillery if you have a problem with counter barrage. Artillery is for the most part a cancer in this game and the less reason to use it the better
Cold tech is gone from the game, you can't relay on HMGs just freezing to death anymore.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Mar 2021, 00:56 AM
#177
Posts: 366
Incorrect
Yeah that slipped under my radar, but that's only with the soviet heavy mortar.
It dosnt track the light mortars. In fact when a light mortar is getting cb, if you councel the mortars barrage the lefh will stop firing wasting its whole salvo.
I thought there might be a weird difference between the okw and the wher lefh but something strange did happen. I had one on cb and one on vet 0 and the vet 0 lefh fired instead. I'll see if I can replicate it but if I can't, probably not worth the trouble.
Edit: Take this with a grain of salt as it could be ai doing ai things. If you have one lefh on CB this can cause all Lefh to fire on the artillery position even if its your allies. Yes, one lefh Cb can activate lefh on all pieces regardless of vet and cb toggled off even if its your allies. The difference is that it would only fire the regular barrage rounds and wont track.
Sometimes the Cb lefh wont fire at all. Iv tried this with multiple LEfh on field from different teams and only some will fire.
28 Mar 2021, 07:20 AM
#178
Posts: 10
Yeah that slipped under my radar, but that's only with the soviet heavy mortar.
It dosnt track the light mortars. In fact when a light mortar is getting cb, if you councel the mortars barrage the lefh will stop firing wasting its whole salvo.
I thought there might be a weird difference between the okw and the wher lefh but something strange did happen. I had one on cb and one on vet 0 and the vet 0 lefh fired instead. I'll see if I can replicate it but if I can't, probably not worth the trouble.
Edit: Take this with a grain of salt as it could be ai doing ai things. If you have one lefh on CB this can cause all Lefh to fire on the artillery position even if its your allies. Yes, one lefh Cb can activate lefh on all pieces regardless of vet and cb toggled off even if its your allies. The difference is that it would only fire the regular barrage rounds and wont track.
Sometimes the Cb lefh wont fire at all. Iv tried this with multiple LEfh on field from different teams and only some will fire.
Interesting.. I used the Soviet mortar as it was (maybe?) the slowest to retreat.
And that thing with the the vet 0 lefh's firing is interesting. Might have to check that out.
28 Mar 2021, 12:49 PM
#179
Posts: 117
Cold tech is gone from the game, you can't relay on HMGs just freezing to death anymore.
right on the money boss
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