Current state of the IS-2

IS2 Tiger and pershing need more love，heavy tank not useful for now

Yes, I absolutely get your point, but I just wantet to give a historical background to my claims, the rest of my post is pure argumentation based on gameplay. I think everyone can agree that IS-2s pickrate is very low and it's just a bad tank overall. That's why I want it to be changed

Remember sibling rivalry bulletin, in this game IS-2 and tiger1 meant to be equal but now they are both equally bad in tigers case you are pretty much building a slower p4 and with its fuel cost its arrives late on the game and get countered very easily. IS-2 on the other hand had a better alternatives like the KV2/ISU, the only reason you'll build this is when the other commander skills are verygood on the current map or pretty much as a support unit same with tiger

Pershing is ok but ... basically the other USF commanders are way too good

Panther is supposed to counter all medium tanks and can be spammed.

It supposed to counter tanks and that includes IS-2.

It's also way cheaper than IS-2 and does not require CP.

It more expensive than FF/M-36/SU-85 that also do not require CP

IS-2 is supposed to be countered by Elefant, Jagdtiger, Konigstiger, Jp4s, Stugs, Pak 40s, Pak 43s and finally Schrecks. IS-2 should indeed counter panther, germans have a lot more options to deal with heavy tanks AND THOSE OPTIONS SHOULD BE UTILIZED, not abandonded. You just want to spam one unit to kill everything, and that's not how the game works

Panther is not main battle tank. Its role is to counter heavy armored vehicles.

Panther is supposed to counter all medium tanks and can be spammed. It's also way cheaper than IS-2 and does not require CP. IS-2 is supposed to be countered by Elefant, Jagdtiger, Konigstiger, Jp4s, Stugs, Pak 40s, Pak 43s and finally Schrecks. IS-2 should indeed counter panther, germans have a lot more options to deal with heavy tanks AND THOSE OPTIONS SHOULD BE UTILIZED, not abandonded. You just want to spam one unit to kill everything, and that's not how the game works

If we drop all the stuff that is doctrinal, what is left in your list as dedicated AT units is the JP4, StuG, Pak40 and PSchrecks.
JP4 and StuG can work but only with RNG on your side. They are very unreliable in a single engagement, that's why people prefer Panthers. The StuG is even quite exposed in later stages due to shorter range. PaK40 can work although the IS2 is decent against infantry. But Schrecks are the last thing you should run into an IS2 unless you're desperate.

What should be Axis' response to a heavy tank then?

honestly i'd like to see a slight increase in rotation acc/dec and that's it. It's pretty good just in 1v1's there are way better and more cost efficient options for soviets for the things it can do.

Panther is supposed to counter all medium tanks and can be spammed. It's also way cheaper than IS-2 and does not require CP. IS-2 is supposed to be countered by Elefant, Jagdtiger, Konigstiger, Jp4s, Stugs, Pak 40s, Pak 43s and finally Schrecks. IS-2 should indeed counter panther, germans have a lot more options to deal with heavy tanks AND THOSE OPTIONS SHOULD BE UTILIZED, not abandonded. You just want to spam one unit to kill everything, and that's not how the game works

PV is the counter to heavy armored vehicles. Which is why it has higher penetration compared to JPIV/Stug. Stug/JPIV are focused around medium vehicle counter/TD counter.

IS2 is the mirror to the OH Tiger. Your perception problems comes from probable playing 3v3+ where heavies are not as viable and the times on which those kinds of vehicles were viable and meta were the ones which it destroyed the smaller modes like 1v1 and 2v2.

Heavies are currently in a fine state and any changed required should not be in performance (specially offensively). The balance team realised why they shouldn't force heavies in team games, it's as bad as trying to force JT/ELE/ISU on 1v1 by buffing those units.

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It's pretty good just in 1v1's there are way better and more cost efficient options for soviets for the things it can do.

i think that's exactly the point! no one can seriously deny that the is-2 - or any heavy for that matter - is a formidable tank performance-wise. but is it worth the resources and pop of more than two t-34s? maybe it used to be but it arguably hasn't been for over a year now.
i'm sure even a modest reduction in cost and maybe pop would bring the is-2 and its contemporaries back into regular play.

All heavies in general are mediocre. Especially King Tiger, I have never seen that thing perform well. It always dies lol.

If we drop all the stuff that is doctrinal, what is left in your list as dedicated AT units is the JP4, StuG, Pak40 and PSchrecks.
JP4 and StuG can work but only with RNG on your side. They are very unreliable in a single engagement, that's why people prefer Panthers. The StuG is even quite exposed in later stages due to shorter range. PaK40 can work although the IS2 is decent against infantry. But Schrecks are the last thing you should run into an IS2 unless you're desperate.

What should be Axis' response to a heavy tank then?

Panthers can dive them and then use blitz, they are very potent at flanking and supporting the KT. All of that and you can also spam them. Pak 40s have better range, pen and a very useful AT ability that soviets don't have. They can be very efficient at covering your Panthers when they start to take a beating. If situation gets sticky you can always use your schrecks and fausts (which both are better than their allied counterparts). Also doctrinal heavy tank destroyers exist, and they hard counter the IS-2 by a large margin. You should just combine your forces and use a tactic to kill a damn heavy tank.
Also I'm not asking for IS-2 to be a next konigstiger. I just want to to be on a slightly higher level than the KV-2, as it would make it unique and more often used (appearing later, but also being stronger). IS-2 is only present in 2 doctrines and even when someone plays with them it's VERY rarely picked. Both sides should have a tank that forces you to change your thinking when you see it being used. Adaptation is a very important skill in RTS games.

Also I just want it to do big boom with lower Rof, come on

Panthers can dive them and then use blitz, they are very potent at flanking and supporting the KT. All of that and you can also spam them. Pak 40s have better range, pen and a very useful AT ability that soviets don't have. They can be very efficient at covering your Panthers when they start to take a beating. If situation gets sticky you can always use your schrecks and fausts (which both are better than their allied counterparts). Also doctrinal heavy tank destroyers exist, and they hard counter the IS-2 by a large margin. You should just combine your forces and use a tactic to kill a damn heavy tank.
Also I'm not asking for IS-2 to be a next konigstiger. I just want to to be on a slightly higher level than the KV-2, as it would make it unique and more often used (appearing later, but also being stronger). IS-2 is only present in 2 doctrines and even when someone plays with them it's VERY rarely picked. Both sides should have a tank that forces you to change your thinking when you see it being used. Adaptation is a very important skill in RTS games.

Also I just want it to do big boom whith lower Rof, come on

My point was that the Panther is the intended counter to heavy tanks, most of what you listed as supposed counters is either doctrinal or not working/unreliable as described in my post. I am aware of doctrinal units, but the whole game has moved away from forcing doctrinal counter picks since this system leads to heavy rush tactics and automatic losses if you don't succeed or pick the wrong doctrine. It can be viable game design, but I personally am happy that it is not the case for Coh2 and in general it should not be incorporated into games where matches regularly last an hour.
I am not sure what your stance on the Panther now is since this reply says that the Panther were the correct response to an IS2 while previously you said otherwise?

I agree that the IS2 is rarely picked. Heavies in general could potentially use a very small buff, although their balance is very hard to get right. A small speed boost for most of them or potentially a 1-5% ROF buff would be my choice, but overall I have not thought it through yet to come to a final conclusion.

That's pretty much how it was in 1st year and how KV-2 is now.
It would be a bad idea for IS-2.

In the first year the is-2 could bounce the ass aof a P4 at point blank which meant the low ROF was devistating.
A mid way point between the current and KV-2 is about where I'd want it but as I said, it's not really necessary.

Imo the is-2 sorta falls into the category with the 120mm mortar. Where it's supposed to be great but in practice it's a bit lackluster as it's neither accessible nor frankly much better than its alternatives. That said the is-2 is functional now and changes open up the unit to being... Not... So I'd sooner leave it as is from a balance perspective.

It wouldn't hurt though to see it in at least 1 more commander somewhere... Or maybe a command Aura of sorts to make the 2 whole commanders with it a bit more attractive without screwing with its performance.

But the tank that is supposed to be on par with the Tiger is the KV-2, IS-2 should have damage per shot advantage and it should be more costy. This would make logical sense, since now KV-2 just outshines IS-2 even when it comes to tank on tank combat and makes stalin obsolete.

The IS-2 in game is the model 1943 IS-2 which is only slightly better than the Tiger. The IS-2 you're talking about is the model 1944 IS-2 which is indeed the King Tiger's equal.

There was no AP round for russian 122mm guns till AFTER the war, still it was capable of tearing a panther open frontally.

But the IS2 lacks a distinctive role, i feel it lacks something, which i cannot put my finger on.

But it isnt worth the CP
not worth the investment
not worth the wait

The IS-2 in game is the model 1943 IS-2 which is only slightly better than the Tiger. The IS-2 you're talking about is the model 1944 IS-2 which is indeed the King Tiger's equal.

If this is the case then it really should be renamed to the IS1 since that was the model with the 85mm Gun. It would at least remove some confusion because in all regards the IS2 should be stupidly powerful and should decimate pretty much an axis tank besides KTs. The IS1 on the other hand would preform more in line with how the current unit works on CoH2.

Regardless of that on my thoughts of the IS2 I do think a slight buff would be nice to see. Although the exact change needs to be done very carefully because no one wants to go back to the Heavy Tank meta from before. The Pershing would also benefit from a similar small buff. Both of them really got hurt with the Heavy tanks nerfs which is a shame.

The IS-2 in game is the model 1943 IS-2 which is only slightly better than the Tiger. The IS-2 you're talking about is the model 1944 IS-2 which is indeed the King Tiger's equal.

Only in the game it is the IS-2 model 1944. The frontal armor of the 1943 model has a step like the KV.

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As you can see, the in-game model does not have stepped armor.
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If anything I feel like IS2 just needs slight tinkering like getting 10-20 armor back. Main gun wise I think IS2 is fine.

The IS-2 in game is the model 1943 IS-2 which is only slightly better than the Tiger. The IS-2 you're talking about is the model 1944 IS-2 which is indeed the King Tiger's equal.

IS-2 model 1943 (also called IS-122) is an IS-1 with the 122mm gun. It gan be distinguished by it's front hull armour, which is shaped similary to Tiger I/KV-1 (it has those weird stairs).
IS-2 model 1944 which we have in game, has one large slope at the front of the hull. (you can even zoom in, it's clearly seen.

1943 model


1944 model



What we have in the game (1944 version)

My bad, when I searched up the IS-2 model for CoH2 I got the 1943 model instead of the 1944 model.

You know realism here is not really a factor in balance unless you want a mg42 to kill every infantry very fast and ofcourse they will be also be not nearsighted, t34 will be much worse than it is , panzerfaust can instagib your puny tanks etc.

Actually, if you went for realism, T34 would be much better and T34-85 would be ultimate weapon of war.
And single molotov would also gib your tanks.
Why are you people talking realism again? Men of war series is that way ->

The IS-2 was far from on par with the German cats though. It had siginifcant problems with reload time and adjusting the barrel. In WW2 tank engagements the gun would be slightly adjusted after the first miss. That was however a huge problem for the IS-2 since the barrel had to be put into the neutral position to be reloaded and then readjusted to fire again. That lead to quite a slow rate of fire and low accuracy. The thing was built to break through defenses, not fight tanks. But hey, big gun. Must be good.

As for gameplay and balance: Why would it perform better than the Tiger if both vehicles cost the same?