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COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Balance » Why on earth do sections need 50% moving acc? Seriously.

Why on earth do sections need 50% moving acc? Seriously.

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JohnSmith
28 Apr 2020, 08:09 AM
#41
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jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2020, 23:50 PMelchino7


USF were a 1 type army, Rifles.
OKW was an even worst version of UKF with the sole exception of having crappy offmap.

I'm just saying that i don't buy that whole thing of not getting UKF IF you also bought OKW or USF near release.


Also OKW was able to one-shoot the whole of the USF base with an offmap. It destroyed every building, including defenses, and there was no way to avoid that. SWS was able to run over units, and destroy environmental buildings that were used for MGs. OKW and USF were a complete shitshow on release.
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Hannibal
28 Apr 2020, 08:20 AM
#42
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 00:29 AMSkysTheLimit


That's what Storm was saying about i. Rounds. If he doesn't own the Brits, then he's most likely never played them at all


Of course he never played them. How could he if he does not own them?

This does not mean that you could not spot that something is wrong with a faction or single units. You should be more considerate and open minded since it is in general harder to get a decently based opinion on a unit, but not impossible. You still get a feel for raw performance, timing and general strength against that faction. And while there are obviously some things missing, this can be enough to have reasonable balance concerns.
I would not phrase an opening post as absolute like OP did, but people were RE-ing against the general fact that somebody talks about a unit he did not buy, which in my eyes is absolutely wrong.

What I said is that I have not seen enough IS yet to have a personal final opinion. But in general it is nice to see Brits being played again, they were quite rare in 2v2 and 1v1 before the recent patch.
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Aerohank
28 Apr 2020, 08:29 AM
#43
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jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2020, 22:42 PMDAZ187


This is true they shit on every axis close unit.
there is no counter to them early game. only Pgrens have a chance against them.



Counter them the same way soviets counter assault grens. Keep your grens together, make the assault troops walk into your concentrated force. Do not try to spread across the map, it will lead to you losing every engagement. Count on the fact that those assault units become worse as the game progresses. Only start fanning out across the map in the mid-game.
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Sander93
28 Apr 2020, 08:39 AM
#44
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 07:42 AMSuperHansFan
Do you think Assault grens or Assault engineers are OP too? Because Assault sections had their stats pretty much mirrored with those two units.


Assault Grenadiers have worse DPS but make up for it with the sprint. But yes, stock Assault Sections are a 1:1 copy of stock Assault Engineers. Upgraded Assault Sections are basically a 1:1 copy of Cavalry Riflemen except for abilities and slightly different veterancy. Of course there is a difference in army synergy to consider, but generally speaking they are nothing more than a previously proven concept.
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SkysTheLimit
28 Apr 2020, 08:58 AM
#45
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 08:20 AMHannibal

This does not mean that you could not spot that something is wrong with a faction or single units. You should be more considerate and open minded since it is in general harder to get a decently based opinion on a unit, but not impossible. You still get a feel for raw performance, timing and general strength against that faction. And while there are obviously some things missing, this can be enough to have reasonable balance concerns.
I would not phrase an opening post as absolute like OP did, but people were RE-ing against the general fact that somebody talks about a unit he did not buy, which in my eyes is absolutely wrong.


Lol that same person who hasn't played the brits regularly demands for people's playercards if he doesn't like what they're saying. He's getting exactly the respect he deserves, he's been trashing the balance team forever

I don't think it's impossible to figure the balance in that case either, the messenger is what people are pushing back on. He only insults about 75% of the people he talks to kappa
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Hannibal
28 Apr 2020, 09:23 AM
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 08:58 AMSkysTheLimit


Lol that same person who hasn't played the brits regularly demands for people's playercards if he doesn't like what they're saying. He's getting exactly the respect he deserves, he's been trashing the balance team forever

I don't think it's impossible to figure the balance in that case either, the messenger is what people are pushing back on. He only insults about 75% of the people he talks to kappa

Then people should call out on the bullshit, not be childish and make straw man arguments themselves and take the personal problems to PMs.

But this "side" discussion has dragged on long enough now. I'd rather go back to topic.
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KONIUX27
28 Apr 2020, 09:31 AM
#47
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 01:49 AMKyle


in 1vs1 Brit gotta spear out to capture the map, in 2vs2 they straight up just moving 2,3 infantry sections together turning them into ~1 burst 1 model ( almost ), also it's very hard to kill retreating IS with bolt action rifle or even G43 / LMG42 compare to kill retreat Rifleman / Penal / Conscript / Guard / Ranger ? ( that's how I feel, me and my mate usually joke about bulletproof IS retreat )

Yes, Grenadier can do the same, same for Volks and Rifleman but right now if you compare mainlain infantry that move as a group of 3 then I fear: Infantry sections > Rifleman > Volksgrenadier > Grenadier > Conscript

At least that's how I feel.

P/S: I feel like in previous patch the Infantry Section is perfect: not too crazy outside out of cover but ain't no pushover if they are in cover. I got no complained with this patch except for IR HT nerf ( understandable about the IR HT bug ) and IS buff


wait wait... grens>conscripts ???
Kimbo is so cute, isn't he?
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Vipper
28 Apr 2020, 10:45 AM
#48
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 08:39 AMSander93


Assault Grenadiers have worse DPS but make up for it with the sprint. But yes, stock Assault Sections are a 1:1 copy of stock Assault Engineers. Upgraded Assault Sections are basically a 1:1 copy of Cavalry Riflemen except for abilities and slightly different veterancy. Of course there is a difference in army synergy to consider, but generally speaking they are nothing more than a previously proven concept.

There is difference between CR AIS. CR are CP 1 while AIS are CP 0 and that is a huge difference.
:)
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T.R. Stormjäger
28 Apr 2020, 10:49 AM
#49
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 08:58 AMSkysTheLimit


Lol that same person who hasn't played the brits regularly demands for people's playercards if he doesn't like what they're saying. He's getting exactly the respect he deserves, he's been trashing the balance team forever

I don't think it's impossible to figure the balance in that case either, the messenger is what people are pushing back on. He only insults about 75% of the people he talks to kappa


Dude wehr’s your playercard? How dare you make such accusations without posting your ranks first? /s
Playercard of T.R. Stormjäger

1v1: Pstreak: - 1
1v1: Pstreak: + 1
1v1: Pstreak: - 2
1v1: Pstreak: - 7


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DAZ187
28 Apr 2020, 11:40 AM
#50
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 08:39 AMSander93


Assault Grenadiers have worse DPS but make up for it with the sprint. But yes.


come again aerohank ? so i must wait till i can upgrade my ass grens so they can compete with a unit that comes from the get go. i have tried sprinting into them but the grens lost every time
1. Relic bans, not me. 2. It stands in the rules: If you are banned more often, the duration increase and can lead in the end to permaban 3. The Case is bigger as you guys think. So pls step 1 step away pls. 4. I am not a player in the 4vs4 cup, because of RL work.
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SuperHansFan
28 Apr 2020, 11:53 AM
#51
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 11:40 AMDAZ187


come again aerohank ? so i must wait till i can upgrade my ass grens so they can compete with a unit that comes from the get go. i have tried sprinting into them but the grens lost every time


I'm sure if you post a replay of your assgren usage him and others would be happy to provide advice.

Assgrens got a lot of use in the tournament. So watching pro replays is a good way to learn how to pick your engagements.

Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is :hansREKT:
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Katitof
28 Apr 2020, 11:57 AM
#52
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 11:40 AMDAZ187


come again aerohank ? so i must wait till i can upgrade my ass grens so they can compete with a unit that comes from the get go. i have tried sprinting into them but the grens lost every time

Damn, it is ALMOST like units that share a role aren't meant to counter/fight each other primarily.
In case you're still too dense riddle me this:
How much does sprint help counter CQC unit?
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Mr Carmine
28 Apr 2020, 12:00 PM
#53
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Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 08:58 AMSkysTheLimit


Lol that same person who hasn't played the brits regularly demands for people's playercards if he doesn't like what they're saying. He's getting exactly the respect he deserves, he's been trashing the balance team forever


Lol yeah he is knocking down the pedistal he made and climbed on with his own hypocracy.

Expeted, deserved and quite funny to be honest.

On topic: bolster comes way to early. As 4 men tommies should have only 1 weapon slot. As 5 men 2. And bolster a final tech side tech as some one suggested earlier. not t0 minute 1 as its now basicly.
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Katitof
28 Apr 2020, 12:04 PM
#54
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 12:00 PMMr Carmine
On topic: bolster comes way to early. As 4 men tommies should have only 1 weapon slot. As 5 men 2. And bolster a final tech side tech as some one suggested earlier. not t0 minute 1 as its now basicly.

No one gets brens before 5th man since they were made impotent, single one isn't worth it, you go double or don't, latter being more optimal usually.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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JulianSnow
28 Apr 2020, 12:19 PM
#55
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Posts: 321

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2020, 22:01 PMDoomlord52

That said, the actual +50% is another "massive number change" that people have been asking the balance team to STOP doing, similar to the infamous "quad buff/nerf" changes. Do +10% or 15% increments (so 0.3 -> 0.35, 0.4 at most), or change one or two stats - don't do massive stat-swings in a single patch.


Really this.. why not buff/nerf units with 5-15% at a time. Some vet bonusses are likewise.

British infantry sections seem more unbeatable than ever before tho..
- Who has time? ... But then if we do not ever take time, how can we ever have time? huh?
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elchino7
28 Apr 2020, 12:26 PM
#56
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 09:31 AMKONIUX27


wait wait... grens>conscripts ???


Context. He is saying he is more afraid of 3 Grens blobbing than 3 Conscripts blobbing.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Aerohank
28 Apr 2020, 12:30 PM
#57
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 11:40 AMDAZ187


come again aerohank ? so i must wait till i can upgrade my ass grens so they can compete with a unit that comes from the get go. i have tried sprinting into them but the grens lost every time


You can use sprint to force engagements that you want to have. You may lose 1-on-1, but the sprint allows you to overwhelm the enemy if you see a weakpoint in his line, or quickly soft retreat your troops if they are caught 1-on-1. Sprinting into enemy SMG troops 1-on-1 is never a good idea, since you will lose on the move DPS and it takes a small moment to aim aftee sprinting where you are taking full damage but are doing none.
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Sander93
28 Apr 2020, 12:53 PM
#58
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 11:40 AMDAZ187
come again aerohank ? so i must wait till i can upgrade my ass grens so they can compete with a unit that comes from the get go. i have tried sprinting into them but the grens lost every time


Assault Grenadiers are not meant to counter other assault infantry. They're meant to counter support weapons and rifle squads. They have the sprint to take less damage on approach compared to other assault infantry, which makes up for their lower DPS. This dynamic does make them slightly worse against their direct peers but it helps keep the game fresh and asymmetrical.

Ostheer has stock access to Panzergrenadiers and cheap light vehicles to fend off assault infantry.
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T.R. Stormjäger
28 Apr 2020, 13:27 PM
#59
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The real issue with ass Grens is that they’re only available in Tiger doctrines, which is a travesty since their viability hinges on Tiger’s viability. Now that Tigers are weak it’s hard to justify building them. They should be available in a different doctrine, I think something like Blitzkrieg doctrine would be really good wih them.
Playercard of T.R. Stormjäger

1v1: Pstreak: - 1
1v1: Pstreak: + 1
1v1: Pstreak: - 2
1v1: Pstreak: - 7


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Mr Carmine
28 Apr 2020, 14:22 PM
#60
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 12:04 PMKatitof

No one gets brens before 5th man since they were made impotent, single one isn't worth it, you go double or don't, latter being more optimal usually.


Yes a single bren is quite meh, so maybe leave it double on 4 men. On the other hand bolster is a no brainer now. That should change.
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