So in other words, I have to exploit/break the game in order to win. I think that was the point of the original post, lol. Not to mention that if your tanks are fighting, you wouldn´t be able to reinforce your infantry, which causes you to completely run out of momentum. It´s retarded.
You dont have to, but you also have to right to complain since game provide you an option to have more units. If it was game exploiut\break then it would have been fixed.
If you dont like to learn how to play the game properly, then you have no right to complain about it really. |
HAVE TO fit 2 Jacksons into your popcap as well as some indirect fire.
Use Decrew. You can fit 2 jacksons, 2 calies, major, ambu, 4 rifles, serg\left. You can effectively use around 120\130 pop-cap as USF.
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Kinda funny to see PF to Penals comparison, because every single sain person, would agree that 140mp+300mp early semi-elite inf, which is locked in tech consisting pretty much exclusively this expensive inf, is at best bad chose overall.
PF design works (OPOKW PLZNERF, has good mainline inf for ones), while penals dont. |
Dont want to answer everything, since this can continue for ages with this counter aurguments. I will just say, that PFs represpent a good excample of what volks should have been.
Their 80muni G43 comes slitghtly later then STGs, make unit truly flexable at all ranges without butchering any of them and, unlike volks, G43 PFs are usefull during the whole game. And they also hit their top early with that 80muni upgrade, but because upgrade is actually have an thought put behind it, its suddenly make squad usefull untill the end of the game.
PFs benifit from all other OKW advantages, but they are just a plain good designed inf squad, with good designed upgrade. But OKW having good mainline inf doesn't make them suddenly OP or broken, considering unupgraded PFs perform rufly the same as volks, if not wost, early on.
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so the sort of thing they are facing when their stg upgrade hits the field (along with access to their snare, and HMG, slightly after their flame nade) ....weird
no volks lose out late game because they hit their stride sooner. just like the other units were losing out against volks because they hit their stride later this is offset in part by having units to carry them through when they are not top of the food chain. you cant have your cake and eat it too.
Yes. Grenadiers do the same, cost less but requare t1. They do have access to snare, to cover denuel, they do have access to MG even faster then OKW do, aswell as access to mid to CQC semi-elite inf as a support, sooner aswell. Upgrade cost the same, awaible rufly at the same time, grens hit their top at this point, but they are relevant during whole game.
they ARE flexible regardless of how you feel about it.
Ok they are flexible. Lets say we have 2 men squad, one model with pioner MP40, second with Mosin. This is also a flexible squad. Question is if this flexiblility is actually any good?
Volks flexiblility is relevant for a small window of time (after they been brutolized by rifles\tommies in early game), then they become unflexible, because when any long\short\mid upgrade for anything else hits the field, it will out-damage all of this flexibility in any scenario imaginable, where closing in would be a suicide.
If they are suppose to flexible and not specialist inf, they should be flexible during whole game, not during your small window of oportunity, after which they become simply bad close\mid range squad.
well i suppose its a great thing that volks can heal up on the field then isnt it? also if they can force a more expensive squad to retreat that is STILL a win. you seem to be under the impression that the only wayfor volks to chalk up a win is to wipe the enemy unit while also taking no damage and that simply will not happen. if a 260/60 unit can force a 280/120 unit to retreat you have won even if you too have to retreat.
Tommies can too heal on the field and even heal other squads and they dont requare vet for it, but a cheap upgrade. Its not win if you are bleeding as a pig in proccess. And if every engagement have to be played this way, chances of failing is dramatically increase.
what you are saying is it seems is that despite having elite units stock designed specificly to take up the mantle volks need to continue dunking on more expensive un its AFTER they invest more resources and time into these units, that again volks were beating up after their first tech was built-
You sound more and more like all volks getting their STG automatically. "Advantage" is 1 squad 2 at best, out of realistically 4 squads. By the time all volks get their STGs their powerspike time would be over.
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or close against weaker targets. because their weapon is flexible it allows they to sit at range if they have to or close and benefit if possible. it also means that units that close on them are getting punished by increasing volks dps.
All units can close against weaker targers, but again, good luck closing against even weaker upgraded rifles\tommies, even if you force them to reatreat you would shortly retreat your volks aswell. And if enemy squad is so badly unjured, then with or without STG you can try to get push.
There is zero flexability. You are thinking from a excel sheet perpective. In a reality all so called "flexability" and "close range DPS" is jokingly low to be even considered a major thing. Its a 1 in a 1000 scenario, where StG volks would actually win a fight where without them they would have lost.
so volks with a 60 mu upgrade will lose against elite infantry or more expensive infantry with equal or greater muni investment and an actual unlock fee for thir weapons. i really hadnt thought of it that way. we should tell relic that you SHOULDNT get what you pay for...
They wont lose against elite inf, they litteraly would lose against everything, if its not fresh ungunned unit. By your logic, penals shouldnt win against obersoldaten like at all or grens shouldnt win against guards, because "they are more expensive". This is stupid aurgument, every other inf has a sweet spot range or a way where they can more or less effectively engage more expensive squads\upgraded units. Volks, past mid game, dont have this sweet spot.
your comparison would make a lot more sense if the soviet started with a shock squad, unlocked the maxim along with ppshs, AT nade and molitov just for teching up once and got guards at t4 but they dont. its literally impossible to not have all the support you for volks from AT infantry, to suppression to AI specialist.
Except it has nothing to do with it. By your logic, volks are shit late game because starting unit is ST, volks are shit in late game because they have early nades and faust for tech. What it has to do with them being not scaling garbage?
Where discution went from "Volks arent scaling into late game" to "Mentioning whole OKW army units to defent volks being weak". I can aswell pick strong sides\units from other armies and base my aurgents on this. This is irrelevant.
And to clear myself, I didnt say that volks need to have same late game powerspike as cons do, in case you again think that i'm saying that volks should become replacement for obersts in late game. |
I refuse to believe that that low low low low low level of effort and investment should rival the investment allies put into their mainline. I refuse.
It's not a volks problem that you are punished for losing a Vetted squad, it's a game mechanic.
Its not, but it still harder for volks. Simply because of the raw damage output. Rifles\Tommies\Grens\Cons when upgraded, even without vet provide much highter damage out-put in a small periods of time. Volks and StGs are basically have to stay and enjoy long firefight, which wont happen.
If they were better they would need to be later. If they were cheaper they would need to be later.
As it should have been in a first place. StG volks by its timing still lose against upgraded rifles\tommies\elites anyway and provide unessery powerspike against non-graded conscripts, while being completly outdated by lategame.
We can start counting all units, count who has more elite\non-elite inf and light armor but its not a point. Point is being that Volks, aside from abilities, right now are the single main-line inf in the game which is objectively irrelevant for late game in terms of combat perfomance.
Cons were given 7-th for the same reason, except they were even weaker. But their idea was the same. To be somewhat alright in early\mid game in their niche, while being completly outdated by late game and act as a meatshield\snare\merge and cover for elite inf or support for something else.
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Why shouldn't vet 3 7 man cons behind cover beat vet 5 volks with stgs behind cover?
Well, to be fair, they kinda shoudn't. I mean, realistically speaking, vet 5 volks in general have much greater value and efford put in to obtain.
Not to mention that its not a secret that vetting another volks squad past mid game is almost impossible. So if you lost your vetted volks, they are gone, thats it, you wont be able to vet another squad most likely. Vet3 7-men Cons have much lesser value as a unit, they requare less efford to replace, considering vet bonuses and so on.
But its not nessesry 7-men cons problem, but rather volks and StGs are overall garbage, not in a vacuum, but rather in global picture.
They do have small powerspike, with early StGs but aside from that they are expensive meatshield for something else. At least cons with upgrade become something self-sufisticated for late game, while volks perfomance boost ends in mid game completly. They kinda represent what cons were actually.
One might say its their design, to protect more elite inf and provide additional damage, but still its a bad way to do a unit. |
Alright then.
Give default SU-76 shots AoE like the barrage, just like brummbar, and increase CD to match brummbars.
While it shouldnt match perfomance of brummbar, turning SU76 into a scott\brummbar like unit actually would have made it usefull. |
Giving healing away doesn't help sturmpios much as its pretty easy to just drop a crate at base whenever you have to retreat them.
Reason is not make ST life easier, but to make OKW life better in case if you have lost your STs and in munition preserving and distribution. Right now you are paying 1\2 muni of ost perma healing bunker, just for 3 heals strate of the bat. Getting kubel and having cheaper heals ones you need them, rather then not spending MP while having expensive healing, it better imo.
If the utility isn't offloaded on existing units the only other solution is make Sturpios weaker and cheaper.
I was always proposing 270-280 ST, with 2 ass.grens MP40 and STG upgrade. Starting squad would still start with 4 STGs (so meta and power wont change), while getting additional STs for sweeping\mines\reps, will be more affordable. |
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