Profile of JHeartless

Jump back to quoted post18 Feb 2014, 12:36 PMBeltFedWombat

Hi.

This is a long post, I will try to tl;dr at the end.

Reading the ongoing discussion concerning commanders, something occurred to me. This something might sound obvious to some of you, but it was slightly revelatory for this call-sign. What is it? I hear you ask with baited breath.

We are all arguing about three different games. There are a number of groups of people here playing this game differently but trying to figure out how to make everything the same. It's like trying to nail jello to a wall, or herd cats.

It's a circle, I'd argue, that can be squared...

Bear with me. These groups are interchangeable, folks can belong in any of them or some (or indeed all). But nonetheless they are playing different games.

Group the First. Many of you play solely 1 v 1. You are probably more focussed on the ladder, automatch and are either an above-average player or aim to be. Your knowledge of game meta and tactics is better than most and you have an instinctive feel for balance and whether a commander sucks. Furthermore, you are disproportionately and unfairly impacted by new commanders, as the 1v1 ecosystem / meta is more fragile.

The second posse are the 2 v 2 crowd. 2 v 2 hardcore players can be every bit as skilled as their 1v1 equivalents and find new synergies in playing with a partner. They are equally as affected by commanders, as the 2 v 2 meta can easily be impacted by a new unit or ability. However, I've made them a separate group as the way in which commanders impacts on the 2 v 2 dynamic is considerably different from 1 v 1 (for example in 1 v1 you choose shocks or guards... in 2 v 2 you can have both which makes for a totally different experience).

The last and probably biggest (and most quiet - they tend not to become hardcore community members) are 3 v 3 and 4 v 4 casuals or hardcore stompers / custom gamers. I sit in this category 80% of the time and get as much of an endorphin release from playing an exciting game as I do winning one. We are also the least impacted by commanders: A decent 4 v 4 Soviet team shrugs at a Tiger ace and can bat off a Windustry T70 rush (it's still annoying and needs fixing, it does not however make the entire-fucking-sky-fall-in). These gamers are ignored by the 'elite' but they buy DLC and fucking love new commanders. I play with these guys all the time. In many ways, they are supporting the elite players as a grass-roots customer base that pumps money into CoH2.

Furthermore, many of them in my anecdotal experience hardly ever play 1 v 1 or 2 v 2. I would love to see Steam metrics on this.

Now before I suggest a solution, let me give an example of how a large gaming company admitted a mistake and radically changed a mechanic that involved *money* paid on top of a base product. Because this is what I'm going to advocate shortly.

Diablo 3. I mentionedf this in another thread. Diablo 3 had the gold and real-money Auction House (AH). You could buy uber-gear for your toon. There are many comparisons with the AH and CoH2 commanders (even though a single player game, but it has a long-promised PvP arena too). In any case Blizzard (yes, fucking Blizzard) said "sorry guys, we implemented AH as an attempt to do something cool but it's adversely affecting the core meaning of the game - killing monsters and getting loot. We're killing it. Not changing it. GETTING RID OF IT). And you know what? People more or less got it and most of us on the Diablo community are looking forward to the AH-free future with an expansion out next month.

And I'm not even advocating getting rid of commanders.

Simply make them game-mode specific. So when you buy a commander it says "this commander is for 3v3 or 4v4" or "this commander is suitable for all game modes." You simply allow Tiger Ace in 3v3 and 4v4 but it won't appear in a 1v1 or 2v2 loadout. Everyone wins. Everyone. You could make even more fucking lazer-panzer commanders for the 4v4 crowd that will sell like hookers on navy day. And the 1v1 and 2v2 people won't be impacted on the ladder.

This is so straightforward it hurts.

Quinn, in the unlikely event you read this look up the Diablo 3 re-boot. And at the end of Q1 say, "You know, we still think commanders are great. But CoH2 is a deep, multi-layered franchise. So we've made the difficult, but ultimately healthy decision to restrict certain commanders to certain game styles. This will give Relic the power to tailor and develop even more exciting content that supports however you choose to play CoH2, from elite 1v1 to large casual games with friends... and to everything inbetween!"

tl;dr - restrict commanders by game mode - 1 v 1 / 2 v 2 and higher.

Thanks for reading.

BFW OUT.

Jump back to quoted post18 Feb 2014, 00:33 AMVonMecha

Ok yeah 4vs4 anything goes, there is an abundance of resources waiting to be used. But in 2vs2 it doesn't happen. I always have mates who use their fuel for munitions and then still cant afford air assets when the shi hits the fan.

Jump back to quoted post17 Feb 2014, 21:38 PMVonMecha

New German doc strong? WHat? You won't even be able to afford using half of that shit. If you pour all your fuel into munis, then you cant build tanks. Any anti air? Doc is useless, a blizzard? doc is useless. I have never seen a dedicated luftwaffe strat help win a game or even hold ground once SOv heavies or any kind of armor spam comes into play. Luftwaffe vs KV8, shocks and IS2s, you are done Son.

Jump back to quoted post17 Feb 2014, 20:42 PMCruzz

PPSH will go up to price to freaking 30 munitions (oh no, how can you ever afford that?) while also gaining 50% more power. I am keeping in mind that the T34s are 9 CPs, that's 14 minutes these days. The other doctrines are getting their call-in CP costs upped in the next patch apparently so this is a very temporary difference. I am also considering the IL2 nerf already, I don't know what the ability is like post-patch but I do know that armored assault and the major ppsh doctrines all had the ability as well so it getting nerfed punishes all of them and thus doesn't change the power balance of this being straight out superior to any of them.

Honestly even if they reintroduced the instant build times in soviet industry, I'd go as far as saying that with the current T70 performance it would no longer be as op as this doctrine. Elite Troops is still retarded and no commander design decisions should be made based on it. New german doctrine is probably fairly abusive but nowhere near the level of this soviet one. If you replaced recon run or the antitank strafe with g43s I might think it was indeed just as horrible balance wise as this soviet one, but alas.

Jump back to quoted post17 Feb 2014, 19:46 PMCruzz

Let me make a slightly different prediction

This new soviet commander and shock rifle tactics will be used in 95% of the games you get from now on until there is a significant balance patch (the one coming out next not counting, because it'll just make ppsh spam even more powerful). This new one made all ppsh doctrines except just maybe shock army obsolete, armored assault obsolete (nkvd too...but nobody was using it to begin with so that's ok), and is extremely compelling to use over guard motor as well because while mark target is powerful, it just doesn't really compare to ppsh+radio intercept.