Make War not Love

whats the cost of the single T34/85?

360 MP 130 Fuel

Really? You can't? Because I sure can.

I thought relic realized this as well because the only other german doctrine with fuel to too much muni was osttruppen, and no ppsh doctrine had call-in tanks. Until now, anyway...

No, I cant. Its a nice commander for those who likes these units but with the upcomming changes to the CP it will fit in nice. Nothing to whine about. It will be popular but many will still prefer to use shocks, build su-85s, isu-152 or is-2 etc......

It actually sounds balanced. And even if it isn't quite there, it's probably a lot closer to balanced than previous releases, and free.

Good stuff, Relic. Looking forward to the patch tomorrow.

No, I cant. Its a nice commander for those who likes these units but with the upcomming changes to the CP it will fit in nice. Nothing to whine about. It will be popular but many will still prefer to use shocks, build su-85s, isu-152 or is-2 etc......

Let me make a slightly different prediction

This new soviet commander and shock rifle tactics will be used in 95% of the games you get from now on until there is a significant balance patch (the one coming out next not counting, because it'll just make ppsh spam even more powerful). This new one made all ppsh doctrines except just maybe shock army obsolete, armored assault obsolete (nkvd too...but nobody was using it to begin with so that's ok), and is extremely compelling to use over guard motor as well because while mark target is powerful, it just doesn't really compare to ppsh+radio intercept.

Let me make a slightly different prediction

This new soviet commander and shock rifle tactics will be used in 95% of the games you get from now on until there is a significant balance patch (the one coming out next not counting, because it'll just make ppsh spam even more powerful). This new one made all ppsh doctrines except just maybe shock army obsolete, armored assault obsolete (nkvd too...but nobody was using it to begin with so that's ok), and is extremely compelling to use over guard motor as well because while mark target is powerful, it just doesn't really compare to ppsh+radio intercept.

^+1

Let me make a slightly different prediction

This new soviet commander and shock rifle tactics will be used in 95% of the games you get from now on until there is a significant balance patch (the one coming out next not counting, because it'll just make ppsh spam even more powerful). This new one made all ppsh doctrines except just maybe shock army obsolete, armored assault obsolete (nkvd too...but nobody was using it to begin with so that's ok), and is extremely compelling to use over guard motor as well because while mark target is powerful, it just doesn't really compare to ppsh+radio intercept.

I just used it in 1v1.

Great commander. It will replace most. For the first time in a very very long time i felt comfortable teching.

The 9 CP made the T34/85 come late that will require me to tech. But allowing me to call in 1 was great.

I would say the commander is balanced. But it more appealing than any other Soviet doctrine I can think of. That is for those of us that dont spam shocks.

Mark Target would have made it OP. Guards would have made it OP.

It flows quite well. It feels more like the type of doctrines that SHOULD have been in the game since day 1.

Can someone confirm the actual in-game abilities for the soviet commander?

There is a discrepancy in-game vs. the description on the store page, and it's big: the store page lists Guards, but in-game it's Conscript Repair. Other than that, though, they're the same.

EDIT: and this, kids, is why we don't leave our pages open while we go eat something!

I would say the commander is balanced. But it more appealing than any other Soviet doctrine I can think of. That is for those of us that dont spam shocks.

Mark Target would have made it OP. Guards would have made it OP.

It flows quite well. It feels more like the type of doctrines that SHOULD have been in the game since day 1.

It's already hilariously op, I would definitely rank it the strongest soviet doctrine straight away just by the abilities, completely ignoring the additional synergy of a doctrine with ppsh, radio intercept and a call-in tank. It's armored assault on steroids, and armored assault already was pretty damn strong...

It may have been even more op with mark target replacing conscript repair, but to be honest conscript repair is pretty good when coupled with a conscript spam commander (ie this one) because it lets you get away with one single engineer squad the entire game, and frees that engineer up purely to build and mine rather than chase around for stuff to repair. So basically this is a commander with 4 of the strongest soviet abilities and one decent one, while pretty much no other commander gets more than 2 of the super strong abilities.

it was guards, radio, t85(2), IS airstrike, and mark target about 1 month before Kappa

It's already hilariously op, I would definitely rank it the strongest soviet doctrine straight away just by the abilities, completely ignoring the additional synergy of a doctrine with ppsh, radio intercept and a call-in tank. It's armored assault on steroids, and armored assault already was pretty damn strong...

It may have been even more op with mark target replacing conscript repair, but to be honest conscript repair is pretty good when coupled with a conscript spam commander (ie this one) because it lets you get away with one single engineer squad the entire game, and frees that engineer up purely to build and mine rather than chase around for stuff to repair. So basically this is a commander with 4 of the strongest soviet abilities and one decent one, while pretty much no other commander gets more than 2 of the super strong abilities.

Except the new German commander and Elite Forces.....both are really strong.

Also keep in mind the T34/85 is now 9 CPs and no mark target making it an expensive P4 with ram (you mean to tell me you would be worried about a P4 call in?) and the nerf to IL2. And PPSH will go up in price.

I dont think its OP. I think SI was OP and Elite was OP. This is not even close to that. Its just really good.

Edit: ill agree that it is the going to be the strongest doctrine. But i wouldnt rate it any higher than Guards Motor. Since you give up Guards, Mark Target and Self Repair for Conscript repair (which I am sure you know is slow as all hell) and Il2 (which is great now but wont be tommorow)

Except the new German commander and Elite Forces.....both are really strong.

Also keep in mind the T34/85 is now 9 CPs and the nerf to IL2. And PPSH will go up in price.

I dont think its OP. I think SI was OP and Elite was OP. This is not even close to that. Its just really good.

PPSH will go up to price to freaking 30 munitions (oh no, how can you ever afford that?) while also gaining 50% more power. I am keeping in mind that the T34s are 9 CPs, that's 14 minutes these days. The other doctrines are getting their call-in CP costs upped in the next patch apparently so this is a very temporary difference. I am also considering the IL2 nerf already, I don't know what the ability is like post-patch but I do know that armored assault and the major ppsh doctrines all had the ability as well so it getting nerfed punishes all of them and thus doesn't change the power balance of this being straight out superior to any of them.

Honestly even if they reintroduced the instant build times in soviet industry, I'd go as far as saying that with the current T70 performance it would no longer be as op as this doctrine. Elite Troops is still retarded and no commander design decisions should be made based on it. New german doctrine is probably fairly abusive but nowhere near the level of this soviet one. If you replaced recon run or the antitank strafe with g43s I might think it was indeed just as horrible balance wise as this soviet one, but alas.

PPSH will go up to price to freaking 30 munitions (oh no, how can you ever afford that?) while also gaining 50% more power. I am keeping in mind that the T34s are 9 CPs, that's 14 minutes these days. The other doctrines are getting their call-in CP costs upped in the next patch apparently so this is a very temporary difference. I am also considering the IL2 nerf already, I don't know what the ability is like post-patch but I do know that armored assault and the major ppsh doctrines all had the ability as well so it getting nerfed punishes all of them and thus doesn't change the power balance of this being straight out superior to any of them.

Honestly even if they reintroduced the instant build times in soviet industry, I'd go as far as saying that with the current T70 performance it would no longer be as op as this doctrine. Elite Troops is still retarded and no commander design decisions should be made based on it. New german doctrine is probably fairly abusive but nowhere near the level of this soviet one. If you replaced recon run or the antitank strafe with g43s I might think it was indeed just as horrible balance wise as this soviet one, but alas.

Armored assault is definatley going to suffer. I agree with you there.

I guess maybe I am just so used to Elite forces and SI that the bar for OP is very high to me (LOL 100 POP CAP WORTH OF AT TO STAND A CHANCE AGAINST THE ACE!!!!!)

But there will be times I will prefer Guards Motor over this. Not knowing how good the new PPSH will be in practice. If the new PPSH means that 2x Pgrens will not kill PPSH scripts faster than a pack of T70s would a Gren squad then maybe your right.

I dont think giving another PPSH was a good idea myself. But it was really annoying losing all your Scripts to the blob of Pgrens in a micro second.

Playing with it right now makes the Soviets feel like the Ostheer. I can have decent AI, A decent Medium Tank, and build my T2 to have flexibility of MGs, Mortors and AT guns and SU85s can be useful since you can field them with a decent medium tank.

This to me feels like the Soviets should have been since release. It makes them well rounded.

I guess time will tell. At least its not a T34/85 ACE!!!

Playing with it right now makes the Soviets feel like the Ostheer. I can have decent AI, A decent Medium Tank, and build my T2 to have flexibility of MGs, Mortors and AT guns and SU85s can be useful since you can field them with a decent medium tank.

This to me feels like the Soviets should have been since release. It makes them well rounded.

You get to have the best vet0 medium tank in the game (with vet PIVs are better but only slightly, plus there's always ram), the best mainline infantry in the game, the best tank destroyer in the game, and get to choose between snipers or T2 units as well, while knowing exactly what units your opponent is building. You're immune to mines as long as you keep alert because you get told every time german player tries to make one. Honestly what are you supposed to do as germans against this?

Armored assault is definatley going to suffer. I agree with you there.

I guess maybe I am just so used to Elite forces and SI that the bar for OP is very high to me (LOL 100 POP CAP WORTH OF AT TO STAND A CHANCE AGAINST THE ACE!!!!!)

But there will be times I will prefer Guards Motor over this. Not knowing how good the new PPSH will be in practice. If the new PPSH means that 2x Pgrens will not kill PPSH scripts faster than a pack of T70s would a Gren squad then maybe your right.

I dont think giving another PPSH was a good idea myself. But it was really annoying losing all your Scripts to the blob of Pgrens in a micro second.

Playing with it right now makes the Soviets feel like the Ostheer. I can have decent AI, A decent Medium Tank, and build my T2 to have flexibility of MGs, Mortors and AT guns and SU85s can be useful since you can field them with a decent medium tank.

This to me feels like the Soviets should have been since release. It makes them well rounded.

I guess time will tell. At least its not a T34/85 ACE!!!

Agree.

OST players unnecessary whine. PzG have no problem versus conscripts and panther still rape T-34/85 with no problem.
It is very good soviet commander, but not OP.

It's already hilariously op, I would definitely rank it the strongest soviet doctrine straight away just by the abilities

but to be honest conscript repair is pretty good when coupled with a conscript spam commander

Trolling?
Looking at the new soviet-commander again i guess it will be used a couple of times in compstomps.

You get to have the best vet0 medium tank in the game (with vet PIVs are better but only slightly, plus there's always ram), the best mainline infantry in the game, the best tank destroyer in the game, and get to choose between snipers or T2 units as well, while knowing exactly what units your opponent is building. You're immune to mines as long as you keep alert because you get told every time german player tries to make one. Honestly what are you supposed to do as germans against this?

T2/T4?

Panthers and Pgrens? (well if the third PPSH doesnt screw that up)

Pgrens molest PPSH scripts currently though they are frowned upon due to cost it doesnt make them any less effective at totally facerolling PPSH scripts.

I also agree the T34/85 is the best medium tank. Right there with you. But Paks are the best AT guns and they can make short work of T34/85s and so can Stugs for that matter. Also the timing means less T34/85s usually because you are gonna want to tech. So I think its a better deal overall in that regard.

But the Radio Intercept eeeeeee yeah thats kinda painful.

Its not going to be for the faint of heart but there is nothing in the stack that cant be beat. Like I said before UNLIKE some OTHER doctrines that have been released.

Edit: You forgot the most expensive Mainline infantry if you include tech costs of AT nade and Molo. And I would argue that only with PPSH are they even AS GOOD as Grens. But I guess thats a matter of opinion as its been debated to the ends of the earth on how the Script/Gren Balance is.

New German doc strong? WHat? You won't even be able to afford using half of that shit. If you pour all your fuel into munis, then you cant build tanks. Any anti air? Doc is useless, a blizzard? doc is useless. I have never seen a dedicated luftwaffe strat help win a game or even hold ground once SOv heavies or any kind of armor spam comes into play. Luftwaffe vs KV8, shocks and IS2s, you are done Son.

New German doc strong? WHat? You won't even be able to afford using half of that shit. If you pour all your fuel into munis, then you cant build tanks. Any anti air? Doc is useless, a blizzard? doc is useless. I have never seen a dedicated luftwaffe strat help win a game or even hold ground once SOv heavies or any kind of armor spam comes into play. Luftwaffe vs KV8, shocks and IS2s, you are done Son.

Stuka doesnt care about Anti Air. If you dont balance your resources yes no armor for you.
But in team games one person has Opels blah blah blah fuel caches blah blah blah. Germans have plenty of ways to get fuel in team games.

This will allow one player to spam Tellar mines if he so desires and LMG grens. Lufftwaffe is a great doctrine and redistribute resources is a great ability. They are combined. Thats pretty damn good IMHO.

Is it Elite forces? No.

Thx Relic for the free content, keep on going this way!

Enjoying the new Commanders, the new abilities (Stuka, Sturmovik) are a whole lot more fun to use in general. I dig it. Good job Relic. The Soviet one is my favourite 1v1 commander so far, the German one seems to be okay for 1v1, but seems to be a really good commander for 4v4, 3v3, and 2v2 games.

Free Commanders is the way to go definately.