I'm just saying there is no reason to drag out shock troopers there is a counter to everything.
I think you are saying that shocks can be countered so we should leave them at 1 cp?
If this is true this completely ignores the fact that shocks are the hard counter to Ost T1. They use to come at a time when you could punish long T1 builds and get back in the fight. Now they come so soon they actually come before the long T1 build and punish all Ost players. These units also get to the field earlier and get vet quickly, making them better in the mid game than they used to be.
What hard counter to shocks would I play from T1? (Please don't say snipers, Ost snipers are useless, and still very vulnerable to shocks) |
Sniper is not worth it sadly, I have noticed that using his vet ability against shocks doesnt really help much
Not sure if this is the case for everyone, but whenever I manage to get vet for my sniper the "stun" effect does nothing. The units have the registered stun effect, but they continue to move and shoot normally. Even more annoyingly I tried this against the computer sniper and it failed to stun the 2nd man in the soviet squad meaning my sniper instantly died. Have not tried since against a human. Is this a bug?
I agree shocks come too early right now and require at least two dedicated units to stall. On top of that they come so soon Soviets no longer need to even bother asking should I build them. Before more mp was spent so it was a decision. Now its automatic. I am having a really hard time holding the field in the early game with this patch. |
Fun fact for soviets: If you have Penal troops, use these to re-crew weapons and use conscripts to merge with them instead of using regular reinforcing. It will cost less, and give you better weapons without weakening the squad with lower armored units.
This is a great tip, that I have used in the past to devastating effect. Penals with MG when you need it, conscript cost when you don't wanna pay for it. |
Expanding on this, the ZiS crew is essentially a Conscript squad, they share the exact same health and armour. There's 6 men, they can be instantly reinforced from any nearby Cons squad, and are faced against Armour that's average at taking on Infantry, so Tank flanks are less threatening.
Now the PaK 40 crew, is not like a Grenadier squad, as they lack the 1.5 Armour that Grenadiers have, making them more like Conscripts. There's also only 4 of them, they also can not be reinforced from infantry squads, and are facing Armour that is above average at killing Infantry, so even a tank from the front is a threat (in one extreme but rare example, a T-34 decrewed a fresh PaK in one hit + 2 Grenadiers bunched up next to it).
The threats they face are also different, a PaK is more far less sustainable under fire than a ZiS. A PaK can be molotov'd, grenaded, mortared, or even artillery'd by a ZiS! The weakness of the crew members and small size make it more difficult to keep alive on the front. A ZiS on the other hand, is threatened by rifle grenades and mortars, but has a larger squad that can be reinforced on the fly at the cost of another squad. This makes the ZiS overall far more sustainable even after multiple attacks.
Overall, unless the PaK is recrewed by Grenadiers*, I don't think the 30% faster RoF makes up for all of its' shortcomings. I personally think the ZiS is the better gun in this case.
* Only Grenadiers. Panzergrenadiers are the same as Grenadiers except for their weapons and abilities, which are lost when you crew a weapon. This would mean you pay more to reinforce the PG's AND PaK, but gain no benefit for using PG's over Grens. Osttruppen are much weaker than the original crewmembers, and would not last half as long. Pioneers would be totally identical to the crew they replaced.
This is really an excellent point about the pak crews. I find them totally unreliable against armor. I never had this problem in vCOH. They did their job and they did it well (as you would expect from a specialist), but they were not over powered. I would really like to see the pak be better at doing its job.
It should also be noted that paks can be deployed at about the same time as their very hard counter the Kats. If a Soviet goes T4, and the Ost player is unsure if they are going T3 or T4 they often build a pak, at which point they just sunk 320 mp into a great Soviet AT gun. |
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I have not been enjoying this patch nearly as much as I hoped and have had much more trouble winning as Ost. Almost every game I play now Soviets are spamming either maxims into shocks or massive con spam into shocks. The FHT is unable to stand up to this because it gets killed in two at grenades, and the maxims negate supporting infantry. Can we please buff the Ost sniper?
Annoyingly, although MG's got a bit of bite back, cons can still hurrah right into them and throw a grenade. Often times this happens when small amounts of cover slightly diminish suppression. Pinned cons also throw a molotov if they are in range as long as the command was already issued. This should never happen. If you get pinned you made a terrible choice. Your troops should be punished and you should not be able to issue an commands. Troops should also not "fall out" of pin while being shot with MG's.
Elite troops exacerbate this problem because shocks and guards get on the field so early. 222 is now effectively on useful against scout car. I would pay more for a unit with more hp and better stats. If the 222 could stand up to the first t70 with a little help I would get one every game. |
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Stug III e was an excellent close support vehicle. It deserves to be increased in price and receive much better stats. This would allow it to function in that role nicely. The target weak point for it is also silly. Stug III e's were primarily used against emplacements and infantry almost never in direct tank to tank combat by 1944. Changing it to something else could better help it fill the role. |
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Not sure this is a bug OP, I was pretty sure this is how the Soviet sniper team worked. Ost sniper is useless against them.
On a related note, I know the Ost sniper gets set on hold fire until he is retreated if you click the hold fire button at any point. Unclicking the button no longer does anything. Toggling it back and forth also does nothing. I only noticed this recently so must have come with the Southern fronts patch. |
you pay with 10 min. no resources incoming  
I know that you get no income, but there is no barrier to income as it should be. That is the point of the income gate. |
I think most of you arguing about T-34-76s historically not being so strong historically seem to be right. Although, would it be more due to the range (and accurate gunning) of the late model Pz 4 rather than the penn of the t-34-76's gun?
Anyway, yeah the Russians do seem to lack a decent medium tank option that's non doctrinal. Maybe something where we can buy an upgun for the T-34-76 would be nice? Similar to the Sherman upgun. At least a medium tank which can do okay against T3 would be nice.
Make the changes that need to be needed (tbh, I don't really care if you increase cost, remove ram (I'd love to remove ram) or whatever), the Russians still need a vehicle to fill this niche.
(Some ppl argue that the German Light tank niche needs to be filled, but it's kinda filled already by the 222. Granted, a single 222 will lose to a T-70 9/10 times, but it gets compensated a bit by the AT weakness of Tier 3 overall.
Not sure what you mean by lacking decent medium tank option. Do you mean you want a medium AT tank, because you have the best medium AI tank? If you do not use the unit appropriately, don't complain that the unit isn't balanced. T34 (ignoring all historic arguments) is more than good right now, but only at its job.
If you want a better AT tank, then choose a doctrine with T34/85's or use a doctrine with a heavy tank. Another option is to tech to T4 to get your hard tank counters. You can't get everything from one building that is the penalty you pay by being Soviets and having more options in your build structure. |
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Agreed that Tiger Ace makes no real sense for this game. Effectively a boss unit, which is extremely hard to balance. It should at minimum cost resources to deploy. |
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