We are making big changes to penals, first we put them right, then we put them left. Then we do something completely else. Yet penals still remain gimick unit because of TECHING PLACE.
Main problem of penals and generaly whole tier1 is building time. Many of you don´t get this, but 40 seconds is far too much.
I get what you are saying 100% and wrote about the issue to some extent in a previous post.
https://www.coh2.org/topic/58098/comunnity-poll-for-t1-penals-design/post/581803
The main issue is not so much timing, but rather the initial cost of t1 and the cost of penals. All other factions build from t0 ( including sov ) except ost who is balanced around effective t0 mg and cheap grens. Building t1 and going 3 - 4 penals is a nightmare to balance because it kind of sits outside the teching timetable all other factions adhere to. The problem is then further exacerbated by soviets tech structure, the differences between ost and okw and the LVs they field, guards, partisans, soviet unit durability and last of all the ever useful merge ability. Edit, don't forget the maps.
Penals/t1 in current form will always be OP or UP largely due to the huge number of variables involved and the fact that penals have to be effective to take back the ground that is initially lost.
It would be far easier to try and standardise the cost of t1 and penals for a more consistent opening and then balance accordingly with strengths and weaknesses that take into consideration the fact that sovs have access to sniper/clown car as well as the fact that guards/partisans can be added to the mix doctrinally. |
I actually don't like the penals for a different reason, I think the PTRS on penals just suck. In a 1v1 with good players you will never see this upgrade, it completely wastes an expensive 300 mp squad. No real player will use the ptrs penals when you have the superior options to:
-tech t2 and get zis
-use guards instead
-rush a t70
-use cons atnades
I suspect you are correct, although it is too early to say. However, lower down the ranks, say 200+ where players are not as skilled with postioning and reading the game ( compared to the pros ) I think PTRS penals offer a huge safety net and will certainly be a no brainer upgrade.
It's not worth trying to force an at role onto the penals when there are so many other better options already available to soviets. PTRS specifically clashes so much with guards, why not just swap penals and guards if you want the PTRS
I think the goal is to make t1/t3 a viable strategy as well as making soviets less reliant on guard commanders, which I fully support. But it should't be so effective that it allows a player to punch above their weight and also be effective on any map.
It would be more acceptable to either a) Add a ptrs upgrade to t0 which costs fuel, either on its own like usf weapon racks or combine it with At nade upgrade. b) Add an upgrade to t1 that allows Guard squads to be built from t1 or a separate Ptrs penal squad.
This puts in place a meaningful choice because it requires tech, fuel and a separation of unit roles as opposed to building 4 penals then upgrading them according to what units opponent fields.
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If picking an upgrade for your troops is not a choice, then American and Brits don't offer the player choices when they go to upgrade their infantry, and we know these are certainly choices..
Don't confuse choices with meaningful choices. Teching for upgrades ( eg USF weapon racks ) is not the same as just upgrading an existing squad once you see a vehicle. This is the problem so many people have with ptrs penals. There is no forward thinking or planning. The soviet player can go any t1 build and as heavy as he chooses, all the while knowing he just has to keep 80 muni in reserve in case an AC or flame HT turns up.
As to the notion that you have to make a choice between AI penals and AT penals, well thats a weak argument since you can just buy another penal to replace the the one you upgraded or you can just get say 3 AI penals then upgrade the 4th penal with PTRS.
Its F***ing braindead.
I am not disputing there is an issue with t1 and a lack of At, and the problem is not easy to solve given the restrictions of the patch, but those people (including the mods) that continue to claim there are choices being made or sacrifices being made when upgrading PTRS need to really consider if they are truely being impartial or if they are arguing their case to support the changes they made in the mod. |
What a fucked game.
Stopped watching after 4th maxum was made.
Keep spreading the cancer. |
Who said the t70 is bad? I said it's not op, you clown.
And seriously, don't buy into the t70 meme, that tank is rubbish, either go for quad and su-76 or skip directly to T4. you wasted 140 fuel for nothing.
@Zerocoh I agree with you about T-70, but it is op according to late news.
Seems to me that you are implying that T70 is UP.
This game was indeed 100% winnable by the soviets, but since they underperform in any circumstances with stock units, then they just get to lose. Your understanding of english is terrible. I CLEARLY implied that you could have won the game with the units you had.
Sorry, but even if on move tank lose in accuracy, the T-34 is not a tank destroyer, like the puma it is or should be made to be accurate enough, even when moving. All tank accuracy was nerfed years ago when moving, l2p.
The Stug E was protected by its armor, and it doesn't matter why they missed, against 3 medium tanks it should have not happened. Errr retard, armour doesn't matter if shots miss. You were on wrong side of rng, it happens to every one, but had you hit stop, then odds are in your favour.
Imagine for a second, it was a panzer 4 against a T-70... Ummm, actually T70 will often get away from p4, especially if p4 is moving as it will often miss..
Learn to play show your player card, then we can talk, thank you.
Ah yes, the good old show me your card reply. Just because i am ranked much lower than you because i am not a rankings whore doesn't mean I don't understand the game.
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@Zerocoh I agree with you about T-70, but it is op according to late news.
The doubles t70 gave you the entire map. Had you not gone full retard and tried to kill the scout car, you would have likely won the game there and then.
Also, enough of the BS about the t70. If its so shit, why build 2.
-Stug E are able to penetrate medium tanks with ease.
Unless your talking bout target weak point, then this statement is simply false. Also fairly certain the mods are changing stug E in WBP.
T-34 could have finished the game long before he got a Tiger(that I managed to kill), because there is no way in a proper balanced state that a Stug E can survive against 3 MEDIUM TANKS I get from tier 4.
Now I don't even think that it's RNG alone ,but that the Stug E has much more armor than it should for its price and purpose.
Did you watch the replay. Tell me you watched the replay, cause if you did, you would have noticed that 50% of the T-34 shots missed, 1 bounced and the rest penetrated. Had you hit stop and not yolo'ed after the stugE, then you most likely would have killed it and gotten away from the Tiger.
This game was 100% winnable by the soviets but the whining/rage and the full retard moments got the better of you. It is obvious that high risk moves and applying constant pressure is your playstyle, which obviously works for you given your rank, but don't complain when it doesn't come off... |
How about fixing up pathing, seems like people forgot bout this? It can still be atrociously bad at times and using the reverse key doesn't always solve the problem.
+1.
And that shit where tanks stop, then drive backwards or forwards, depending on destination, then resumes course for no apparent or obvious reason. I lost count how often i would scream at a tank to fucking move when it stops for some invisible object on a road.... |
Basically anything that improves survivability really.
Lost count how many times I would try and clear a house with AE with flamers, that were supported by other flanking troops, only to see flamer explode on approach, or get focussed and whole squad get wiped even if I hit retreat.
Not sure on stats but IME they feel more vulnerable than other flamer squads. Could just be my experience though. |
Usf have a forward retreat point that they can move.
Would have been extremely beneficial in this case.
Also, separate major and ambulance, just in case you opponent spots your FRP. |
The infiltration mechanic can truly be frustrating, especially on maps that have lots of houses and shacks.
The other thing is IME, partisans are generally used in conjunction with conspam or with maxims, so your already fighing or microing on multiple fronts, making it very easy not to react in time to the ppsh partisan wiping your support weapons. It is simply not an ability I associate with skill or good gameplay.
I often wonder if relic misjudge the age of their playerbase, because only 13 year olds would find this fun to play against. |