It is funny to see how russians still have problems with flavour of Soviet faction, namely - conscripts and penals instead of normal soldiers like other nations have. All these years since outrage on game launch.
On topic - is it only me who is tired of lazy upgrades that have no alternative AND give no downsides?
All this stuff about giving DP-28 to Conscripts coming up all the time. Don't you feel like it would be... boring?
Yes it is very stupid:
- Conscripts, all armies of the world in the Second World War had a conscript system. Why are the Grenadiers not called conscripts? because they can also be conscripts. In the USSR existed term - rifle troops, so called infantry troops in the USSR. In the USSR, people walked in large numbers by volunteers to the front. Why do we not have a volunteer infantry squad?
- Penal troops, why only the USSR has penal troops? When the Germans had the Penals and they made the first penalty units. 1% of German and Soviet troops was Penal troops - but they are the main unit.
Having two parallel main starting infantry units is a stupid decision.
- Penalty units must be removed from T1 and renamed to Conscripts and used in the ability "Rapid Conscription"
- Rename Conscripts in the Rifle Squad, combine Conscript and Penalty concept.The Rifle Squad starts with Mosin rifles can be replaced by six SVT-40 |
Sorry for the double reply,
But on a serious note, what if conscripts got the penal PTRS package, and Penals(please rename HERO STRELKOVY) Got a weapon upgrade, like the dp-27 to go with svt, but could fire on the move and was locked to tier?
or if not, the real answer to conscripts not being strong enough, is more conscripts.
I generally think Penal should be removed from T1 and be an osttruppen analog. And share responsibilities between other units:
- engineers give PPSH-41.
- rename conscripts in the rifle squad,replace the PPSH-41 upgrade with two DP-27.
- Guard give SVT-40 and Lend-Lease Bazuka. |
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three AVT-40, I think it will be easy to change the SVT-40 to the AVT-40 by firing in short bursts (2-3 shots), it will be between PPS-41 and SVT-40 (but closer to SVT-40). |
It will also be bad, because its a weapon unsuitable to how the squad is supposed to be used, which is closer distance fights.
If Conscripts take Ober MG-34, they become very strong. Then that MG-34 does a lot of damage. In any case, the DP-27 requires a buff to the level of other machine guns. |
Apple vs oranges?
I'm quite positive that a good AI weapon will have more impact then sprinkling shitty AT one over all possible squads.
And to the previous, no, giving any kind of LMG to cons is not a good idea, single DP will do close to nothing for them except make them more immobile.
Cons will never be used as mainline infantry without weapon upgrade and no, no amount of bonus accuracy with vet will change that when ammo investment from all other factions still easily outperforms that scaling and arrives much earlier.
Of course, one DP-27 will be bad - because the DP-27 is the worst machine gun in the game and needs a buff. |
Giving Cons SVTs is a bad idea because it would make them too similar to Penals.
One DP would be the better choice. And it would have to be locked behind T3 or even T4 (like the Osttruppen LMG). I don´t think this would be too OP because the DP isnt really that good.
That being said, the balance of Cons and Penals is decent at the moment, the concept of having two mainline infantry units is bad in general as Shadow has said earlier.
A good way to help Conscripts would be to merge Molotovs and AT-nades and make them 20 fuel combined. Paying 10 fuel for Molotovs and 25 fuel for AT-nades seems too much in my opinion. It just delays T70s way too much. Which is actually one of the big drawbacks of Penals vs Cons. You can always upgrade 1-2 Penals with PTRS without delaying your T70 but if you went Cons and you are being rushed by Axis LVs you have to go AT-nades and make the window of facing LVs without T70 even longer.
And giving PTRS to everyone is a great idea? Guards have PTRS, Penal have PTRS and Conscripts in the doctrine. The USSR has a bad infantry design. |
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You know what causes the most surprise. Many can say: the history is one, the balance is different, but
- STG-44 produced about 450,000 and all have it without doctrines and with doctrines.
- PPSh-41 was produced around 7,000,000 and this is only in the doctrine, in fact you can arm all your troops with only submachine guns
This is ridiculous. Engineers should be armed with PPSh-41, for them it was the main weapon, conscripts should have an improvement for PPSh-41 without a doctrine. Replace the command ability of PPSh-41 to SVT-40 |
I think the problem with conscripts its not so much their performance, but everything that comes with it:
- Spending fuel in two grenade techs, which delays armor (dunno, maybe link the costs of both grenades just like the t1/t2 structures)
- Lack of any non doctrinal weapon update in the late game where every mainline infantry is lethal with brens, bars, lmgs or stgs. You are stuck with your mosins, just like penals are stuck with their far superior SVTs.
- Awfull maxim supression negated by yellow cover. Zis, if not for their abysmal firerate, are fine. Mortar is also pretty good.
I think that conscripts should have an improvement on the DP-27 or SVT-40 when T3 or T4 is built. |
Anyone else sees it as a bad news?
It means they are unwilling to create new entry that people would actually want and instead go for easy, low budget solution which equals to throwing meat scraps at a bunch of angry dogs in hopes they won't tear them apart.
Also, both of these already are "remastered" with modern QoL solutions and improved balance in OpenRA project.
Yes. Remasters are two sides of a coin.
- On the one hand, this is an old great game.
- On the other hand, this reluctance to invent something new that would repeat the same success.
Remaster is not a game - it is a business, it is an attempt to sell what has already been sold at minimal cost.
The only question is which side do you tolerate more. |
One video a thousand words
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_K7HJuNJ40
I do not know when I play with the IS-2 ricochet that is rare + the low productivity of the main gun makes this tank useless for me. |
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