Profile of HFSzsoci

From the turret need avoid the circle strafing, at max range shootout not real problem for me use a turretless unit, with hold the range distance, i CAN use the weak Jagtiger or ISU pretty well vs turreted tanks .

I know the free barrage ability, a bit random-lottery gun yes, but i feel better for clearing out the garrisons, force enemy squads leave his cover, than Pumas coaxical mg.

Soviets T4 here in the community, underrated imo too. Where is this rule, the SU player ONLY can build after the T1/T2, a t3 building? If you feel, Puma spam arrive, why you cant going some Guards doctrine, with off map SUPERIOR t34/85 med tanks, and start a cheaper, T1 buildings, with 40 F price, SKIP the t3, instead build fast T4, and counterspamming the SU 76? I guarantee, if you doing well, Sniper-Guards-M3 open, followed by SU 76, and later on T34/85 with mark target, will beat with good success the Puma spam...

I think the problem is compounded further by the lack of any decent infantry AT. The puma is far too agile to chase down reliably with bazookas or guards.

IMO all infantry with AT weapon used from cover/garrison, can scare away/kill Puma, people overestimate the PUMA AI power simply, this is not a t34/sherman vs inf...

PUMA gun vs inf is a nothing, coaxical mg is avarage, but VS OPEN terrain short - mid range exposed/injured enemy soldiers. IF you want kill a healthy 5-6 member US-SU squad from green cover, or House, your PUMA need 2min rest...

Puma have long range(50), where OKW player can use his longer shoot range with 80 penetration value. This is not to much, in closer range, med, has 120 penetration, this is avg. value, and at close range 160 pen value, what is very decent for a heavy armored car, yes, BUT, in med/close range, where the pumas armor penetration can penetrate with good chance, the enemy MED tanks can fire back, they are in shoot range too(40) with 100% penetrated hit, because puma has shit armor, and enemy med tanks alltime penetrate puma. If you want KITE as OKW with your puma, and hold the distance(and you want, because your hp and armor far weaker than a med tanks), puma penetration is ONLY 80!, even the hated SU76 have better penetration--->90, and +10 shoot range too(60 max), so i dont really know why people want PUMA nerf vs med tanks. PUMA desperately need in OKW mid game, dont touch this unit, fine in current state.

If the gun damaged enough, i saw, from small arms fire (rifle and smgs/lmgs) destroyed AT gun, with Attack move too, this is not prove anything. The AT gun is hardcounter on Puma, not the Puma hardcounter on AT gun...

Puma is fine unit, play the OKW "med tank" role in his system, as a bit expensiver T34, who has a bit more AT capability/mobility with good micro, a bit less AI capaility/durability, a bit cheaper faster tech route, but t34 later better/easyer spammable.

In Russian system T34 have 310mp/100F price, the Puma in same ECO system is 320mp/100F. I dont see the problem. RUS have vs Puma mines, Guards, AT gun, AT nade etc. Puma AI ability is simply not enough for can hold the line vs Guards, but a defended AT gun is enough scare away/kill the Puma, and you dont need for this AT gund defense Guards doctrine, enough for this vs PUMA the basic Conscripts, with AT granade, and puma CANT circle strafe the Gun. Puma has escape ability, T34 have STAYING and KILLING ability vs infantry...

Without, or nerfed Puma, i feel OKW would be too vulnerable for SU sniper team cheese, or T34 Spam. I see a lots of time, with current, not nerfed PUMA, in high level replays, Stomped the OKW player, for SU Sniper+Guards strat followed some T34variant. I feel Puma nerf, dont the right direction, if the panther CAN be cost effective vs spammable allied med tanks horde, and can coming on time, plus OKW get some decent anti sniper units, THEN, but just after can we talk Puma nerf, in my opinion...

tell me if that 7 fuel difference, makes a difference to the 235fuel difference a soviet player has to cough out.

regardless of minor error, because okw takes 2/3 the fuel, the simple conversion is to multiply the unit costs by 1.33 to simulate the slow rate. its not the most accurate to the perfect demical place, but it should be sufficient to show my point.

still my point still stands.

Wongtp, i dont want flame war, but your math again, and again fail. You spaeak above 235 F difference, between the firts Puma and first T34. This is WRONG too. First, the M3 is not the proper unit, what you count on, a simple-straight first Puma-first T34 tech build price comparison, i think, because i can count on the OKW T1 building 40 F price, for Crucial HEALING, what you can buy only for Manpower, etc etc... It is non sense, i hope we can agree for this.

You count on the starter 50Fuel for the Russian tech price, and not for the starting 40 Fuel for OKW. The right formula here : OKW start with 40 F, he can deploy for this the T2 building, where can build 1. puma, for a RUS price EXACTLY 100 F. So the OKW firts Puma is 100F. The RUS side, can buy T1, for 40F, but RUS starting with 50F, so you have yet 10 after you buy t1, and you need buy your t3, for 120 fuel, and first T34, for 100. IN MY math, this difference between is the first Puma/t34 is EXACTLY 110 FUEL and NOT 235. I hope this help for you understand this a bit.