Yes, thats vet thing is true too, you have right. A reinforce cost increase for SU sniper teams from 90 mp to 180mp, i think would be enough, and a good solution. The WM sniper cost decrease fail, i not want easy spammable Snipers, i want need both side babysitting his sniper units, and if he cant, will be punished. |
WM snipers price is good, cheaper price follow spamming, what is not good for meta i think. But the WM sniper performance for his price, not enough, his survivability as a lone member, vs countersnipe, AoE weapons, far weaker than russian type 2 member Sniper squad for same price, who can survive incoming succesfull countersnipe, and rfc his squads only for 90mp, not loss the whole squad(-360mp), and 2 member squads have chance vs incoming mortar round/nade one of the member survive this attack, if he stay out of AoE effect.
Small arms fire/new Coh2 armor system work for Su sniper too, because WM sniper have chance avoid small arms damage 50% more than a RUS sniper, but IF you can damage, your have only 40hp, not 2x40 hp, so if you get damage, this damage comes very fast, and drain your hp lightning fast, with leave WM player not too much reaction time for retreat. SU sniper team leave your more time for right reaction.
The Overall effectiveness between snipers vs common inf units is different too, because WM inf squads 4 member, RUS squads 6 member(150% better force retreat as SU sniper), and you can drain more manpower from WM enemy with SU sniper, because wm squad members have higher MP cost vs RUS units(Conscript 20mp/member rfc vs Gren 30mp/member rfc cost, elite units Guards 30mp, ST 40mp vs PG 45mp cost).
The rate of fire difference is almost nothing between 2 type Sniper variant, but WM sniper need 150% faster RoF compensate the target squads member number difference(4 vs 6). Many people don't realize this, this RoF difference is not 150%, only circa 110%. This simply not enough.
So i think, Wm sniper cost is good, but he need more survivability best scaled vs common small arms(give him 1 armor instead 2 armor bonus, with double his hp from 40hp to 80hp. This give a bit more reaction time the WM player/better scaled-visible incoming damage.
Sniper War, Counte Snipe meta is bad too. Imo i think the wrong way if he give WM sniper new critcal table, where he can survive countersnipe, because that will be Overpowered, with his superior camo ability, but need the SU sniper team bigger punishment if they get countersnipe. Actually, a incoming succesful countersnipe cost the WM sniper -360mp, the RUS player only 90mp. This is BROKEN.
I think the solution is, if the RUS sniper team get countersnipe, maybe need double the rfc price, from 90mp to 180mp, and this is would be good, because compensate the WM sniper better cloak, he need cause two times more succesfull countersnipe for same MP drain than a RUS player, but now, 4x WM countersnipe worth the 1 RUS countersnipe in MP war, is a Joke. A Bad Joke. |
Ekko Tek you have right, Wm have all support units in T1 with grens, it s fact, but proper microed M3+sniper can bleed out the WM player in mp war 221-222 scout car good vs very early and UNPROTECTED sniper, yes, but i haven't problem with noobs, who cant kite with M3 the faust, or dodge grens rifle nade with Sniper teams... I have problem vs good SU player, who knows the RUS 30munis mine can one hit destroy the AC/or can use his 1cp guards infantry with upgrade+button skill, or can protect with AT nade his sniper vs advanced 221/222 Scout car, can use on his sniper team the hold fire ability, in vet1 the sprint, can countersnipe cause WM player -360mp, and realize if WM contersnipe his sniper team member, he need retreat intstant, and loss only 90mp, not whole 360mp sniper squad... |
Good Job Relic/Sega! We are all Happy, the big community is the good/happy community ! |
The HP is also necessary vs incidental AoE fire.
I feel a buff to 80hp is adequate to asymmetrically balance the onfield survival of these parallel units.
My first problem is the unbalanced Countersnipe metagame, and effectivness difference SU sniper vs 4 member/squad, between WM sniper vs 6member/squad.
But, what you wrote, i think, balanced, because all mortar shell hit can kill instant WM sniper(40hp with 2 armor multiplier) AND SU sniper 2x40hp with 1 armor multiplier)team both. Mortar effectivness vs Both type of sniper are equal i think. But Counter snipe meta/ effectivness vs common inf squads, its not. |
I have not problem for WM sniper hp... With proper micro, WM sniper cant harmed common small arms fire, because you can use your longer 50 shoot distance, wiht attack move, vs common small arms 30-35 range. The real problem for me in countersnipe meta-game, where WM player can give -90mp drain with a good hit for enemy side, but SU player can with same good countersnipe give -360 mp drain for his enemy. 90mp =! 360mp...
The current sniper vs sniper metagame i think broken... Maybe we can see a good tutorial stream video for DEVELOPER/anyone decent player, what the proper use of WM sniper vs RUS sniper effective? It is would be good...
Other things, the efficiency vs WM sniper on 6 members Conscript, MG-s, Mortars, Guards, ST etc. vs the SU sniper efficiency on 4 members WM squad, Gren, PG, MG, mortar etc... The rate of fire difference between SU and WM sniper for me ingame nearly imperceptible, but the target squad size difference is huge, 150%. I feel this broken too...
Sorry for my very bad english. |
When a good soviet goes M3+sniper, and then call in 1cp Guards, or use his very cheap, 30 munis mine, the WM T1 will be destroyed RuS M3+sniper, or M3+flamer engis backed up with sniper, and WM try counter this T2 type 222 SC/AC, the 30 munis mine one hitted, or Guards make short work on AC... You have very hard minutes in early game, as WM. Later then, if Rus can fastech for T70, and game over, NO P4 here, another option, T2, and AT gun, mortar, maxim, with T1 M3+flamer pio, flamer Penal, snipers, doktrinal units as Guards, 120mm übermortar, etc... |
Someone noticed the fact, german sniper in game not shoot vs 4 models squad as the RUS counterpart? The rate of fire difference almost unoticed WM and RUS sniper, for me, ingame... I think the target squads 4/6 difference is 150%, but the rate of fire? I see old Coh2 stats website, WM a bit faster in theoretical, but in real game, i dont feel that, what i read in stats, but not work in the game, i try vs AI both sniper, the WM sniper shoot 20x in 2minute 8 sec, and same range, the RUS sniper team shoot same neutral house with attack move 20x in 2min 13 sec. So i think, the rate of fire difference is not enough, 20 shoot WM sniper 2'08 vs RUS 2'13 is not 150% difference... |
I dont think re-tiering is really necessary, they just need some adjustment.
Possible Solutions:
1) 1 Russian sniper in the squad dies, the other runs off map effectively making it a 1 man sniper squad
2) Another option is reduce the range on Russian snipers so that German snipers can get a chance to counter from farther away.
3) Option 3 would be a cost reduction of the German sniper. I like this one the least.
4) Change armor type on the German sniper to be like KCH or the Officer from COH1 so that it takes 2 shots to kill it (or 1 shot if the sniper is lower than 50% HP) effectively making it = to a 2 man sniper squad.
+1, all solution would be better than never changes the current countersnipe metagame... |