German Sniper should be cheaper

Sniper is ok alongside scout car play. Even more so when the enemy gets (as usual) guards. It is just so very fragile; my only complaint about it. Soviet snipers are pretty much a non-issue, because of the said cars and other support.

I'd say the Soviet Sniper is no good in 1v1 either - it's harder to kill but it fires less and is harder to camo.

So it balances out in the end.

The fire rate balances itself because German squads are smaller. So the only real difference is the 2 men vs better camo. And I think 2 men is a much bigger advantage, primarily because it makes countersniper almost impossible. So Germans have to find another counter against Soviet snipers because their own won't cut it. There are counters, but until they're fielded you have to suck it up and hope you don't lose too many men. This is reflected in my actual experience, as I very rarely see a German sniper but Soviets ones appear with more regularity. Not as often as in vCOH, which is a good thing given how godmode they were in that game.

Only time I would seriously field a German sniper is against an opponent that goes T2 + shock troops, as the MP bleed is significant and he has no direct counter. The Soviet sniper on the other hand is buildable and viable in most situations.

The fire rate balances itself because German squads are smaller. So the only real difference is the 2 men vs better camo. And I think 2 men is a much bigger advantage, primarily because it makes countersniper almost impossible. So Germans have to find another counter against Soviet snipers because their own won't cut it. There are counters, but until they're fielded you have to suck it up and hope you don't lose too many men. This is reflected in my actual experience, as I very rarely see a German sniper but Soviets ones appear with more regularity. Not as often as in vCOH, which is a good thing given how godmode they were in that game.

Only time I would seriously field a German sniper is against an opponent that goes T2 + shock troops, as the MP bleed is significant and he has no direct counter. The Soviet sniper on the other hand is buildable and viable in most situations.

Kinda true, but the Soviet T2 is much better for late game than the Soviet T1 so if they do build T1, they're going for a stronger earlygame but a weaker lategame IMO

Kinda true, but the Soviet T2 is much better for late game than the Soviet T1 so if they do build T1, they're going for a stronger earlygame but a weaker lategame IMO

Well choices are the entire point of the Soviet tech tree. IMO it should be made a little less brutal (IE being able to build more than 2 buildings per game) by reducing the fuel cost of the second building of a tier. So if you got T1, T2 costs 10-15 less fuel. But I digress.

On the other hand, Snipers stay useful all game long, and synergize wonderfully with the already powerful Guards and SU-85s combo. Maxims, mortars and ZiS guns lose effectiveness as the game goes, but snipers shave off at least 30 MP and a quarter of a squad's strength whenever it's shooting at vanilla grens or vet 3 PGrens.

Or maybe make it so the Soviet sniper puts ther German one at 1 hp if it hits it at full health. They would take 2 shots to kill each other in that situation, but even if an engie squad points its rifles at Hans he's toast. Something to make counter-sniper wars possible. Because it was a fun part of vCOH that simply cannot be replicated here.

You could allow an upgrade that let your T1 building build T2 units for like half the building cost. The downside would be that you can't build units of both tiers simulatneously and you wont be able to build any units from that building while it's upgrading - which should take a considerable amount of time.
Not the same for T3 and T4 though, those should be kept separate.

@Crells: You call me biased, but you disregarded that if you see a Ost Sniper, he will have sacrificed the same. What an outright biased and loaded comment.

Not realistically. German support elements are in the same building as the Sniper. They're in different buildings for Soviets. Getting both T1 and T2 buildings in a game is, I've found, very expensive and pretty rare if you want to keep up with German tech speeds.

WM snipers price is good, cheaper price follow spamming, what is not good for meta i think. But the WM sniper performance for his price, not enough, his survivability as a lone member, vs countersnipe, AoE weapons, far weaker than russian type 2 member Sniper squad for same price, who can survive incoming succesfull countersnipe, and rfc his squads only for 90mp, not loss the whole squad(-360mp), and 2 member squads have chance vs incoming mortar round/nade one of the member survive this attack, if he stay out of AoE effect.

Small arms fire/new Coh2 armor system work for Su sniper too, because WM sniper have chance avoid small arms damage 50% more than a RUS sniper, but IF you can damage, your have only 40hp, not 2x40 hp, so if you get damage, this damage comes very fast, and drain your hp lightning fast, with leave WM player not too much reaction time for retreat. SU sniper team leave your more time for right reaction.

The Overall effectiveness between snipers vs common inf units is different too, because WM inf squads 4 member, RUS squads 6 member(150% better force retreat as SU sniper), and you can drain more manpower from WM enemy with SU sniper, because wm squad members have higher MP cost vs RUS units(Conscript 20mp/member rfc vs Gren 30mp/member rfc cost, elite units Guards 30mp, ST 40mp vs PG 45mp cost).

The rate of fire difference is almost nothing between 2 type Sniper variant, but WM sniper need 150% faster RoF compensate the target squads member number difference(4 vs 6). Many people don't realize this, this RoF difference is not 150%, only circa 110%. This simply not enough.

So i think, Wm sniper cost is good, but he need more survivability best scaled vs common small arms(give him 1 armor instead 2 armor bonus, with double his hp from 40hp to 80hp. This give a bit more reaction time the WM player/better scaled-visible incoming damage.

Sniper War, Counte Snipe meta is bad too. Imo i think the wrong way if he give WM sniper new critcal table, where he can survive countersnipe, because that will be Overpowered, with his superior camo ability, but need the SU sniper team bigger punishment if they get countersnipe. Actually, a incoming succesful countersnipe cost the WM sniper -360mp, the RUS player only 90mp. This is BROKEN.

I think the solution is, if the RUS sniper team get countersnipe, maybe need double the rfc price, from 90mp to 180mp, and this is would be good, because compensate the WM sniper better cloak, he need cause two times more succesfull countersnipe for same MP drain than a RUS player, but now, 4x WM countersnipe worth the 1 RUS countersnipe in MP war, is a Joke. A Bad Joke.

WM snipers price is good, cheaper price follow spamming, what is not good for meta i think. But the WM sniper performance for his price, not enough, his survivability as a lone member, vs countersnipe, AoE weapons, far weaker than russian type 2 member Sniper squad for same price, who can survive incoming succesfull countersnipe, and rfc his squads only for 90mp, not loss the whole squad(-360mp), and 2 member squads have chance vs incoming mortar round/nade one of the member survive this attack, if he stay out of AoE effect.

Small arms fire/new Coh2 armor system work for Su sniper too, because WM sniper have chance avoid small arms damage 50% more than a RUS sniper, but IF you can damage, your have only 40hp, not 2x40 hp, so if you get damage, this damage comes very fast, and drain your hp lightning fast, with leave WM player not too much reaction time for retreat. SU sniper team leave your more time for right reaction.

The Overall effectiveness between snipers vs common inf units is different too, because WM inf squads 4 member, RUS squads 6 member(150% better force retreat as SU sniper), and you can drain more manpower from WM enemy with SU sniper, because wm squad members have higher MP cost vs RUS units(Conscript 20mp/member rfc vs Gren 30mp/member rfc cost, elite units Guards 30mp, ST 40mp vs PG 45mp cost).

The rate of fire difference is almost nothing between 2 type Sniper variant, but WM sniper need 150% faster RoF compensate the target squads member number difference(4 vs 6). Many people don't realize this, this RoF difference is not 150%, only circa 110%. This simply not enough.

So i think, Wm sniper cost is good, but he need more survivability best scaled vs common small arms(give him 1 armor instead 2 armor bonus, with double his hp from 40hp to 80hp. This give a bit more reaction time the WM player/better scaled-visible incoming damage.

Sniper War, Counte Snipe meta is bad too. Imo i think the wrong way if he give WM sniper new critcal table, where he can survive countersnipe, because that will be Overpowered, with his superior camo ability, but need the SU sniper team bigger punishment if they get countersnipe. Actually, a incoming succesful countersnipe cost the WM sniper -360mp, the RUS player only 90mp. This is BROKEN.

I think the solution is, if the RUS sniper team get countersnipe, maybe need double the rfc price, from 90mp to 180mp, and this is would be good, because compensate the WM sniper better cloak, he need cause two times more succesfull countersnipe for same MP drain than a RUS player, but now, 4x WM countersnipe worth the 1 RUS countersnipe in MP war, is a Joke. A Bad Joke.

I actually agree with increasing reinforce for Sov snipers to 180MP, although not only in situations of countersniping but also in general.

If a sov sniper team loses a guy, he still keeps the vet, isn't that enough?

If a german sniper loses a guy, well, he's dead.

Yes, thats vet thing is true too, you have right. A reinforce cost increase for SU sniper teams from 90 mp to 180mp, i think would be enough, and a good solution. The WM sniper cost decrease fail, i not want easy spammable Snipers, i want need both side babysitting his sniper units, and if he cant, will be punished.

German sniper is fine if used with German sc. Lest we forget the vet 1 ability of the German sniper which can allow for counter snipe. using snipers to get rid of snipers is not the point guys use SC, mortar, artillery (in it's various forms), tanks if later in the game, and nades. Having to use a sniper to counter another sniper or even balancing the game through that create boring and bad gameplay.

I've seen plenty of German snipers in 1v1, lately some used right and some used wrong, never felt they needed any more of a buff in any of those games.

It really doesn't need to be cheaper, it just needs to be more survivable. An HP buff would do much to remedy the issue.

+1

I think, the WM sniper would be better 80hp with 1x armor multiplier, than a current 40hp with 2x armor multiplier.

Soviet Sniper teams need rfc increase, 90mp--->180mp, not WM sniper need to be cheaper...

or just add a spotter to the german sniper and make them both 2 man teams