Profile of The_Courier

I don't like to say that, but Dane is biased. Sorry, but giving Volks more scalability, when they already have crazy good vet and belong in the faction with the best elite infantry in the game, is ridiculous. Volks blobs are enough of a problem without making one of the toughest infantry in the game (at 235 mp) able to DPS down any allied infantry. And did he seriously say OKW is the weakest when top player stats puts them in first place?

Soviets are spammy? How so? Conscript spam only ever works in the hands of Von Ivan because they scale so badly. Maxim spam is countered easily by Ost and is manageable by OKW if they don't get pushed back. T-34 spam gets laughed at by heavy armor or dedicated tank destroyers. Comparatively, grenspam is a thing, volkspam works against vehicles, and riflespam is basically mandatory for US. So I'm really unconvinced by this argument.

He has some good points. But I'll listen to a Ciez or Cruzz or VindicareX before I'll listen to Dane.

It's very much a one-trick pony unit.

If you're on a map where you can use its advantages, and manage to protect it from every single AT threat that exists, AND babysit it like crazy, then yes it's going to be extremely effective.

If you cannot meet those three conditions, sometimes you might as well try to kill the enemy's tanks by charging rear echelons at them.

I get that the US is meant to have a harder late game. But I do feel it's really exagerated that one misclick or pathing brainfart can lose you the game, while all other factions can just a-move their heavies to glorious victory.

The midgame AT capabilities are not the only feature which make the Puma such an indespensable unit for OKW. It's also basically the only armor OKW can field til late game. Jagdpanzer is too situational and expensive to go for it, it'll cost you games when facing inf spam tactics. Flak HT is run by clowns right now. And thats it. Puma is the only way to be offensive in OKW midgame, forcing the allied player to deal with armor, fighting weapon teams, snipers etc. Its basically the OKWs allround medium tank with lower AI abilities to compensate for its early availability.

Without any armor on the ground, and the Raketenjoke, OKW wont be able to survive til late game.

US is a whole different ballgame. In the US OKW matchup, theres not much armor to deal with for the US player until lategame, and then he has tankhunters + at guns + zooks. I cant speak for the OH matchup though cause I lack experience. But I'd generally say that having a viable AT gun is always a safety net. And how is 270mp a "massive delay" of your tech? Its a cheap insurance for any german medium armor coming along. Or are you the one player worldwide who's playing without a Captain?

I do play without captain against OKW if I can get away with it, since the AT you get there is pretty impotent against their vehicles anyway. AT gun is not very useful against puma (smoke + natural speed), won't pen a Jagd, and the captain himself is not amazing thanks to zook's average penetration. And of course the Stuart is not really good with all the shrecks running around unless you babysit it.

In general, if I'm forced to go captain against OKW, it means I've lost the early game, which means I've almost certainly lost the game period.

The US-OH matchup is sometimes worse. AT guns + captain can keep the StuG/P4 at bay, but you're always at a disadvantage armor wise until you can get your Jackson on the field.

US is VERY reliant on winning the early game and pushing your advantage. If you can't do that, you're in a very bad position because you don't get actual, solid AT until the Jackson is out. Their midgame AT situation is far worse than OKW's, which is why I think the reasoning doesn't really work. Shrecks alone are better AT than anything the US can get until they buy the Major, and the raketen and 57mm are pretty equal sans the lower range.

Again, I don't think the Puma is crazy OP. But it's a very powerful unit that you don't have much reason to not buy, and its speed + smoke makes it crazy survivable for a unit that comes this early. I should know, there's nary an OKW game where I don't build it.

I think I did not explain my thoughts well enough. The OKW is the only faction which lacks a proper AT gun and has no medium tank. That puts it in a very vulnerable position the moment allied medium tanks arrive. You cant kill off armor with just infantry. And this is a weakness which is compensated by the Puma.

The game between HelpingHans and OMGPop shows the importance of a Puma for the OKW mid game pretty well. At 18th minute you can see how the (heavily supported) Puma trades with an (unsupported) E8. One little mis-micro, and the Puma was gone.

The Puma has to be exceptionally strong to fill in a gap in the lackluster non-infantry midgame AT department of OKW.

Though I admit in terms of the other points being brought up here, Puma could be overperforming. But any demand for “nerf” should take into consideration the things stated above.

I don't get the argument that OKW NEEDS the Puma. It has shrecks on a durable, cheap unit. The Raketen actually does its job if you aren't on a hilly map. The Jagdpanzer is an excellent tank destroyer that can beat IS-2s if supported a bit and shits all over medium tanks that can't flank it (hello shrecks). I never have any problem fighting off medium tanks as OKW unless I've been pushed off the map and denied fuel. The Puma just makes it even easier, properly microed you can need no other vehicle until you break out the KT/Panther/Jagdtiger. Hell, I'm pretty certain OKW actually has the best non-doctrinal midgame AT of all 4 factions. Raketen is not as good as other AT guns, but requires no teching, can garrison and can retreat. Once it's tendency to fire at the ground is fixed it's a fine unit.

I mean, going from playing OKW to US, it's incredible how different they are. US is a faction that has absolutely shit midgame AT. All you have are bazookas which can't pen anything bigger than a StuG and cost fuel to get, AT guns that you need to spend ammo for them to be good (and massively delaying your teching to T4 in the process of getting them), and... that's it. Stuart is only good for its abilities, I'd trade it with the Puma in a heartbeat. Until they get the micro-intensive Jackson, US AT in general is far inferior to OKW's.

I just don't see the problem. OKW is in my opinion the last faction that really needs a unit like the Puma. Doesn't mean it should be removed or anything, but a small nerf wouldn't hurt it overmuch. Just nerf its penetration a bit, it should be a flanking vehicle, yet it can reliably pen the frontal armor of medium tanks that come much later.

I think that's intended to go with their lower fuel income. Easy access to unit, but relatively more punishing fuel income which (along with vet 5) encourages preservation.

I don't think that's bad design. In fact, I think it works well in game and OKW vehicles on the whole seem functional and balanced. They are usually very good but losing them is a more crippling blow. Consider also that the trucks are immobile and relatively fragile, an OKW player getting pushed off the map could lose his buildings which other factions don't really have to worry about.

In fact, I daresay the OKW's bevy of powerful elite infantry is more of a problem than its cheap teching structure.