Profile of Cardboard Tank

I'm talking about actual combat reports and accounts from books- not wiki'. I've never read of an account of shots bouncing off the P4's front.

The 80mm vertical was a very theoretical protection that was within the upper limits of the 76mm/75mm's performance. Special AP rounds were enough to go through it although conventional AP rounds were less certain.

I can´t completely follow this logic. Tungsten rounds which greatly improved performance in regard to armor penetration weren´t very common. M4 Shermans, even with the 76mm gun didn´t get them in the west until 1945. Those were reserved for the tank hunters.

Those rounds were also less accurate.

And those few rounds don´t make the enemy tank bad in every engagement. It would be saying that the IS-2 would be an easy kill always, because the tungsten round of the Panther could penetrate it at long range - though if we look at the reality there were almost no Pzgr. 40 available.

You say yourself that regular AP rounds were less certain to go through the Panzer IVs armor. Thus I think we both agree that the Panzer IV actually had the advantage of engagement range and protection until 1944.

The IV-H was very much a late war tank..within the last year of the war sort of business. T-34/85's, Shermans 76/Fireflies had proliferated greatly since then- the latter often encompassing half of tank platoons and the former being universally adopted by tank units.

I´m not comparing the Panzer IV to the later Shermans and T-34 here. I´m talking about the time from early 1943 - summer 1944, were Soviet tank losses increased drastically. This actually has to do with the upgun and increase of protection on the Panzer IV. Actually Shermans were mostly 75mm versions in Normandy. Allies were surprised to see an increasing number of Panthers and only by August there was an increasing number of 76mm armed Shermans available. The British meanwhile had the Firefly, but only 1 of 5 Shermans was this version. The Germans in the defensive role thus picked Fireflies out first.

What´s the sense of this? The Panzer IV is already ingame. The one with the skirts btw. isn´t the Ausführung G but the Ausführung H. The unvetted Panzer IV could be the Ausf. G though with it´s impotent frontal armor I like to imagine it´s the Ausf. F with 50mm armor.

I think the precision strike nerf was necessary. On mortar duels like Semoiski this was just annoying. As soon as the soviet mortar hit vet 1 the duel was over. I have yet to see whether the ability to totally wipe German mortars is in fact reduced. The 120mm mortar still has a more powerful grenade, more range and the ability to deliver a precision strike. I´m almost certain it will still outclass German mortars.

The only problem I see is that people expect the T-34/85 to win head on versus Panthers and Tigers. With mark target, guards button ability and some flanking (thus you get two tanks) they actually do beat those. Also the T-34/85 isn´t an anti tank vehicle by nature unlike the Panther. Thus it has better anti infantry capabilities.

I don´t know whether they come out too late at 9 CPs, I have to play that first. But on the other hand there´s the risk that a single Panzer IV or even two for that matter with mark target get overpowered by the T-34/85s.

There is other stuff in the doctrine that improves the T-34/85s anti tank performance drastically.

I play mostly 2vs2:

I veto all the Winter maps, where a Blizzard can occur.

- Oka River
- Don River
- Rhzev Winter
- Moscow Winter

There is one veto missing to lock every winter map in 2vs2 (Semoiski Winter doesn´t have Blizzards). So I don´t veto "Pripjat Winter", because I know it will be vetoed by other players 90% of the time. There you go: Every Blizzard map out of the game.