Source?
Second to last stream with peter, I think he repeated himself a little in the last one too. i'm not exactly sure when he said it and I'm not searching through the whole video right now.
When he was asked about changing the call in meta, he replied saying that they would first have to fix soviets since they rely on it so heavely, and that they would do this by making nondoctrinal troops more enticing. By his connotation it seems like they were working on something with the soviets and I doubt that they just dropped it after he left. |
It's exists because Relic wanted to exist because OKW is a faction that is different from the other factions because it would be a tad boring for every faction to be the same. OKW focus's on truck based teching ----> all WFA techs give a bonus ----> OKW truck teching gives you a bonus in the form of forward retreat point/area denial/repairs and conversion.
And if you don't believe Relic sad it, then just look at all the call ins soviet commanders give. There is over twice the amount of call in unis for Soviets than any other faction.
This argument is stupid when you realize peter said they were changing the soviets so they weren't dependent on call-ins. Just because that's the way it is currently, doesn't mean that they believe that's the way it should be. Especially when they specifically say it isn't. |
Precisely. This "Indirect fire" thing is being parroted around by the standing members of the Axis Anti Nerf Committee, when they really mean to say is howitzers. The 120mm mortar also does wonders.
But this only applies to Soviets and 1/6th of US commanders. By the time I have significant indirect fire (howitzers or powerful offmaps), I will also have tanks, call-ins, AT guns. I don't need help at this phase. I want to know what to do about the Schwerer in minute 8 of the game.
And even so, let's say people use howitzers, AT guns, offmaps etc - so now we have used ammo, manpower, teching, fuel, all to remove a structure from the battlefield. What about opportunity costs? While you are investing resources and time, I assume the OKW enemy is kind enough to have units of comparable manpower cost simply idle around and do nothing? When I build a T4 as Soviet, it does not present an inconvenience on the map and OKW doesn't have to allocate resources just to remove it or lose access to a portion of the map.
I will remind you that Sov tier buildings are more expensive, offer about the same in terms of unlocked units, but none of the advantages. Trying to pass a forward HQ, a fortification and a repair center as a weakness instead of an immense strength of the faction is asinine. Nothing prevents you from putting all your buildings at the base just as every other faction has to, and still have a more useful, cheaper base, with inbuilt repair and medic functions. Literally anything you do beyond that is a bonus, an OPTION, a glorious possibility that you have that no other faction has. If you choose to use this option, you enter the realm of risk/reward mechanic. Except the risk is relatively small, and the rewards immense. Worst case scenario - the building goes down. So? you lost roughly a Puma's worth of resources to occupy a significant portion of opponent's firepower for a prolonged period of time.
Now, I personally like the different flavours of each faction, and it's nice to have OKW differ in this aspect. But you can't really complain about forward positions being exposed to artillery. Yes, we know they are. It's because you choose to put them there even though you could have put them in the base and still be no worse than all other factions.
This. Everything in this.
So much about OKW right now can be described with their risk/reward factor being much more reward then risk.
The only thing USF can do against the OKW fortress at the 8 min mark is bring at guns which is completely useless if it's behind a shotblocker and extremely hard to protect while it kills the structure. I have just given up on this as 80% of attempts to destroy the flak medic combo ends with me giving a free AT gun to my enemy. |
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Yes they can move it, but while they are doing that their units are vulnerable to a full retreat. Not to mention even a light vehicle like the 222 can chase it down very easily. And while soviets might have katyushas and 120s, US options are less viable. Pack howitzer can't hit anything through the fog of war, and M8 wont be able to reach if it's behind a flak truck. Their heavier options won't come out til atleast 9cp.
I play a lot of US, even when I intentionally create builds designed to take out the buildings I still struggle in taking them out. I wish it was possible to just avoid them, but with how effective a well placed medic hq and flak hq is, taken them out is usually a necessity if you even want to have a chance to win in the long run. |
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USF forward retreat is much easier to deal with then OKW's. It only takes 1 infantry squad to kill the truck and major pretty quickly and on a full retreat there's nothing stopping you from giving chase and forcing the whole army back to base.
OKW's seems like it has disadvantages on paper, until you remember it's usually protected by a giant, long range, infatry and light vehicle decimating machine that keeps any sort of harassment away from it. In most my games it usually takes multiple full routs from the okw player before the medic truck is in any danger. Atleast before multiple tanks hit the field. It really screws with supposed US mobility when your enemy has a no go huge base in the middle of the map with easy access to anywhere on the map. |
Those aren't really comparable, since the SU-85 is less mobile and the Jadgpanzer is the least mobile medium tank in the game. The Jacksons strength is it's very high mobility for being a TD, that coupled with damage makes it stupid good against Ostheer T3.
EDIT: The Panther is a better tank hunter, but at it's high cost it can't be massed in numbers like the Jackson can, more than 1 Jackson lets you stack the amount of Alpha you can do very high, while the Panther only has 160 damage.
I'm not saying it's not powerful against ostheer, just that it is still a T3 level unit in terms of unit value. While it is obviously better at things then the other TDs, debatably more important things, it isn't a T4 unit in terms of value. As in it isn't on the same level of power as panthers, brumbars, or KT.
For example, T34-85 and sherman 76 are actually better then their T3 counterparts. On the other hand a Jackson will will actually lose in a head-on fight against a jagdpanzer or su-85, other T3 level units.
Ostheer's weakness to it has much more to do with not having a proper TD themselves to fight it. I know can be hard to kill good player's jacksons with infantry AT. |
How can we realistically buff USF late game to compete with axis when they have no other tech beyond Major which is very much T3 plus the jackson which is basically a T4 unit in T3 and we all know the problems that is causing with OST T3. On that subject I fail to see how a penetration buff coupled with a dmg decrease will make the jackson any less dominate against OST T3 while I guess it would make it more viable against heavies though......
The jackson has around the same value of a SU-85 or jagdpanzer. It's a T3 level unit. It's turret and high alpha are misleading, but it's low health is a significant weakness.
A panther for example is a much better tank killer. |
i warn about decrewing, falls and cas can really spoil your fun. i'll say as well, i've felt sorta bad disembarking the crew on all my shermans just to squeeze as many out as i possibly can. i wonder if it's codeable to make crew seperate entities and have them take a certain degree of pop, ie m3 crew, priest crew, etc. That would completely destroy saving the crew. If they lose their tank or get it stolen they would become giant burdens on the player. That would maker a bigger problem then the one it fixes. |
Just get a Tiger & moveable Pak 88 as a T4 units and everything will be fine.
I just don't think relic will do a third german faction, at least not entirely. Looking at how the WFA factions were designed it's obvious that the design team is pretty ambitious. They will be looking to get some actual aesthetic variety on the axis side as well. Afrika corps also implies it will be much more German oriented, and wouldn't really be very different aesthetically then warmacht or early-game OKW(for example: almost all suggested afrika corps suggestions I've seen usually contain the tiger in some way). Mediterranean would be more Italy themed while still letting them use some of those unused german stuff to fill in any holes or just because it's cool. |
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Cynthia said the beta was going to be for big things that couldn't be properly tested with a small sample size. So it needs to be for more then just a normal balance patch. Last time they did it was to test the spectator mode. Let's hope the warspoil revamp is big enough to warrant it too. |
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