range and better vet 0 throwing animation are both important... it means the incendiary nade can be thrown with less distance covered... and plenty of cases where one takes unecessary damage with conscripts that would never occur with volks due to their awful throwing animation
plus the incend nade afaik has a small amount of impact damage on detonation... its quite noticable on low health squads...
True, but again the Incendiary grenade is simply OKW's only option against cover early on. Cons, again, have access to Oorah, giving them significantly better mobility than Volks. The fact the Molotov is 33% cheaper than the Incendiary grenade should imply that it ought to have some downsides, as well.
Also: both the Molotov and Incendiary grenade do damage on "explosion", its just that the incendiary grenade's is delayed and is accompanied by a "Bang", which may mislead you into thinking it's due to the grenade itself, rather than just being the first flame tick. I'm testing them in Cheatmod right now, if you have any other thoughts.
As far as i can tell, in terms of damage they are absolutely identical, the only difference being that the Incendiary grenade has a short delay before it spreads its fire. |
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The USF ATG doesn't fire insignificantly faster than the other ATGs, it makes a big difference against light vehicles. Regarding the cost of APDS and "Take Aim", that's a fair point to make... They are quite expensive, though "Take Aim" is a bonus ability. Giving an ATG 70 range and self spotting is very powerful.
I think it can be argued in either direction whether the USF ATG is the "Best" or the "Worst". I think it depends how you value things. If you consider the 30 muni cost to have the highest DPS, and highest pen (Minimally higher than other ATGs), potentially killing a tank another faction simply could not (with just their ATG/A snare), then you might consider it the "best", though if you believe the fact you have to pay 30 muni any time you want your ATG to pen medium or heavier armour reliably to be a detriment, and too much upkeep/micro, then you might consider it the "Worst". It's an odd unit.
If im honest I think the Calliope is overstrength. It's fantastic rocket arty that is absurdly survivable compared to others in its class. This isnt exactly relevant to the strength of the Pershing though.
I would prefer the Pershing didn't go back to the way it was before, it was rather a wipe machine, and I really don't like losing entire squads to single shells. I don't think anyone likes oneshots. It definitely needs buffs/changes, particularly for 1v1, but it's hard to know what they oughtta be. Larger AOE, lower (infantry) damage, faster firerate, better MG, and slightly higher armour? It would be good for it to maintain the niche of "Infantry memer", but preferably in an interesting and "unique" way. (Ideally it would also have a crew, but this simply isn't possible right now)
The thing with the Popcap "Abuse" is that it's considered part of the faction "Balance" by the balance team, to my knowledge. Even if it isnt often used to its full potential, the option IS there, and the balance team seems to take it into account. I think solving it would ultimately be a good thing, but it's unlikely to happen given how much work would be involved... and the fact we aren't guaranteed any more patches. (I'm hopeful we'll get some though! The 64 bit update leaves me somewhat optimistic)
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The Jackson is still arguably the best TD in the game, and doesn't even struggle against the P4. It pens on every single shot midrange at vet0 against the P4J, and every single shot at vet0 against the P4G. It pens every time against any P4 at vet3, as well, without needing to use HVAP. HVAP then gives it fantastic DPS versus premium Med and heavier armour.
I mean, I know you're trolling, but I'll respond in good faith anyway. |
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In what way does the Incendiary Grenade "Completely outclass" the molotov? The molotov has less range, sure, but does approximately the same damage, has no time to "explode", costs 10 less muni, and comes on a squad with a nondoctrinal sprint?
Its downsides are: Requiring an upgrade to use, shorter range, and longer throwing time (Unvetted. At vet the Molotov throws as fast as the Incendiary Grenade and does damage faster due to no arming time). It's not completely outclassed.
Also: As Sanders says, the Incendiary Grenade is OKW's only flame option outside of doctrines. Without it they have absolutely no answer to heavy cover positions, team weapons, and buildings in general. Every other faction has things to deal with these threats other than a flame grenade. Even USF, which has a t0 mortar. Without the Incendiary grenade OKW are pretty fucked early game when it comes to any of these things, whereas Soviets have CEs with Flamethrowers... arguably the strongest handheld flamethrower squad in the game, by virtue of Merge. Molotovs are a "bonus" as opposed to a necessity.
Remember that OKW used to have a Stielhandgranate on volks, it was changed to the Incendiary for a reason. |
Eh I'm not too sure about that. The USF mortar is basically a copy pasta of the Ost mortar and isn't insanely op against ost and okw 4 man support weapons. The ost mortar also isn't op against the USF and UKF 4 man support weapons.
If the cost of having decent support weapons is 4 man than I'm all for it. Clearly the 6 man support weapons teams aren't all that great considering that SOV have the worst base mortar and the worst base mg even with 6 man.
Ost rifle nade is cancer incarnate with either 4 or 6 man support weapons.
OST rifle grenade is unlikely to be effective vs six man crews unless they're all insanely bunched in yellow cover, though, and this is sort of the fault of the team weapon user.
The real issue is that the Maxim and DShK have severe deathloop issues. It's not exactly fair to give them fourman crews while they deathloop as they do, and (apparently?) it's "unfixable". Sixman MG34/42, Vickers, and 50 cals are incredibly good, especially if you are a mental patient who crews them with shocks.
All sixman crews (Even the maxim and DShK) are indeed less vulnerable to explosive attack than fourman crews, also. This is often glossed over. |
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Arguably some of this is the fault of the somewhat flawed USF design document. Hiding AT snares behind vet is silly, they should instead be unlocked permanently along with Grenades (And/or for free with the second tier Captain/Lieutenant upgrade). Isnt the USF ATG the best in the game though, assuming you spend the muni it craves? It has a higher firerate and arc, so it begins being very good against Light Vehicles, and retains this arc and firerate when you use the HVAP ammo, while having superior penetration to all the other ATGs. It's admittedly not much higher pen, and is diluted when you consider OST and OKW have higher Armour values across the board, but the increased firerate, self-spotting, and increased arc helps alleviate this.
Popcap especially is a hard thing to argue regarding USF, due to their inbuilt (And in my opinion terribly designed) ability to circumvent popcap restrictions. If this could be done away with somehow then I think this would leave room for further changes.
Ideally, vehicle crews would share the population space of their parent vehicles (Unless the vehicle is destroyed/captured), at which point the crew's population would revert to the current "Crew Pop". A side benefit of this would be, if implemented correctly, that the Pershing might be able to have a crew without causing issues with allowing you to double up on Pershings. Honestly in an ideal world USF would be able to call in replacement Vehicle Crews, and empty vehicles for crews they salvaged to occupy.
I'm really not sure how feasible this is though, it would be a very complex thing to implement, and likely cause unfortunate bugs, |
I don't really see how these stats are misleading, or how they would blow up numbers. They are simply the only way to effectively compare units. In the case of infantry durability versus small arms, with wildly varying factors such as number of models and target size, effective hitpoints is the only way to compare their durability.
It ignores the role the unit is intended to perform, though.
Snipers, for example, have very poor EHP, and by merely looking at that you might be led to believe that they are beyond worthless, and would be killed immediately in a fight.
The fact that they're not intended for frontline duty, and in fact if they are being shot at all you are doing something entirely wrong, isn't reflected if you talk purely about "EHP". It's part of a bigger picture, but some people seem to think it's the only thing that matters for an unit. Snipers are an extreme example, of course, but I hope it serves to illustrate my argument. |
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I wouldnt worry, SturmPanther, I'm sure people are happy to wait. The current map pool, while not perfect, isnt so terrible that it cripples the game. I sort of wish Lelic would just dispense with the "one patch" idea and allow you to push map updates whenever you liked, though.
I do wonder if the 64 bit update is merely a "Last Hurrah" or if it will predate something else interesting for COH2 (or beyond) |
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EHP of Obersoldaten when compared to Commandos is as misleading as comparing P4 EHP to the Panzerwerfer.
Obersoldaten are a direct combat squad, are intended to get into slugfests with other infantry. They are necessarily tanky. Commandos, and Stormtroopers are decidedly not "Direct combat squads". They are intended for infiltration and ambush.
The fact Commandos EHP is so close to Obers is obviously in Commandos favour. They are supposed to be getting the drop on enemy squads, deleting them, and then escaping. Their smoke on retreat is arguably better for them then a further decrease of RA would be. Comparing apples to oranges is really stupid. |
Soviets go double CEs (170mp extra vs 200mp) to spam mines just to survive. Also flamer is essential to their early game. Not sure why the comparison to USF, REs can’t get a flamer and usually just get 2 zooks and a sweeper, then run around helping repair or shooting tanks.
Crews, smoke and moving accuracy are not bonuses. Bonus implies it’s an extra. They’re not extras. Without them it would be laughable to compare the USF and Ostheer vehicle rosters.
So what is an "Extra" then? Because clearly we can't consider Ostheer/OKW's higher armour to be "Extras", given that without it you'd be paying a premium for practically the same tank as the US/soviets/UKF.
Look man, you're not arguing in good faith here. |
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