Ostroppen in their release were NOT supposed to replace grens. Ostroppen at release could not cap points and were something like 400% worse when outside of cover. They were NEVER meant to replace grens but instead give manpower effecient defenses which ost struggled with.
The issue with this sort of design is that you really only have so much space in your army for infantry squads. You can't really do anything special with one or two Ostruppen and one or two Grenadiers, at least in my mind.
They sort of fulfil your desired role right now, in any case. They synergise in the way you want with Panzergrenadiers, with Ostruppen being a wall for the enemy to break upon, and Pgrens being able to probe weakness and actually fight enemy squads. Grenadiers are simply not suited to that sort of task, which is why they are not used along with Ostruppen.
Pgren/Ostruppen synergy is arguably TOO good, and if you were to try and make Ostruppen/Grenadier synergy better, you would merely be making Pgren/Ostruppen synergy better at the same time, and Pgrens will always be superior in this role. The only way you'd make Grens attractive alongside Ostruppen is by taking away their Faust, I think, but by doing so you will basically make them worthless.
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Can I ask why the balance team is repeatedly nerfing 4 man sections when the overwelming majority of players (even the anti-brit ones) admit 4 man sections are fine and bolster is the issue? The cap speed changes was implemented a year ago and crippled brits back then because you just flounder under a sea of volks/assgrens/ostruppen as you struggle paying the fuel for your now mandatory sidegrades.
Brits issues before when they were unplayable always stemmed from how useless 4 man sections were vs easily spammable infantry combined with fast light vehicles (tommies still have no snare). So the british answer to this is spam capping inf, so you have enough fuel for bolster and AEC.
So why don't you change bolster? you could reduce the capspeed on upgrade and play around with DPS and RA rather than nerfing 4 man squads every patch and making UKF unplayable until you revert the changes again.
Bolster is an unfortunate albatross that, many people seem to think, holds UKF balance back. Apparently Lelic really doesnt want to let the Balance team just do away with the upgrade entirely, which really would be the optimal solution.
Removing a capspeed bonus upon Bolster would be basically pointless, by that stage the window where a capspeed bonus is most valuable is over (in 1v1), and reducing RA upon upgrade feels like a bit of an odd idea. It's very counter-intuitive to have an upgrade make models MORE vulnerable. Removing Bolster and balancing Tommies around their being five men (Or at least making five men the default and making Bolster do something other than increase squad size) would be the ideal solution, but it seems this is extremely unlikely. |
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Personally, my preferred solution to the Penal Question would be to put them in tier 0 as an actual alternative to Conscripts, giving them perhaps a Panzerfusilier treatment, and then to place something else in Tier 1 to replace them (I would personally want (AT-focused?) Nondoc Guards, or some other AT solution.)
My suggestion would be to make them more "Assault" oriented Conscripts, befitting their theming as Strafniki.
Cursory suggestions include: Similar pricing, begins with Mosins but may upgrade to SVTs (or SVTs + Thompson-style profiled PPSH, or some other weapon variation), maintains To The Last Man (Or some similar ability), and ideally would even have Merge. I would likely not give them Sandbags or Oorah, however.
They would also benefit from the same side-tech upgrades as Conscripts, which would give them a slightly different set of tools. (I.E, HE grenade and reworked AT satchel (Shorter range than AT grenade, but would guarantee an engine critical, perhaps? Alternately just hand them the regular AT nade)) This would include Mobilise Reserves. This part of the suggestion would obviate issues with Conscript Tech Costs either forcing you to have Conblobs or no cons at all.
I think giving Soviets two equally usable mainline infantry options nondoctrinally might be an interesting factional gimmick, and is ostensibly what Penals are SUPPOSED to be already (By some accounts).
As I say, this really is mostly cursory musing, If it's an idea anyone thinks might actually be workable in any way I'll go ahead and put some more thought into it and develop some actual figures/work out kinks. I think there is definitely a lot of room for improvement/criticism to be levied.
I realise this suggestion makes both units rather similar, but I think there is room to make them both unique.
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1. strumpioneer
Don't change its pops.
Don't make it possible to take both schrek and wire. it is sames as making sapper, pio and engi can take both flammer and sweper, echelon can take both sweeper and riflenade.
2. walking stuka
Don't let vet 4 skills to vet1. It is so damn poweful.
Or increase aoe scatter and cooldown or munition cost.
you said made it less poweful but the scatter is too small so it doesn't matter at all. and small aoe doesn't matter thx to munition cost reduction.
Royal Engineers and Rear Echelons can both get sweepers and AT weaponry, and are both fiveman squads (RE through vet). The comparison to Flamethrowers doesn't make any sense at all. Sturms cost rather more than other Engineer squads, and take up more room population wise. Sturm Shrecks are also the only handheld AT that OKW can even get (non doctrinally). Before this change they simply were not bought.
EDIT: Also: Why do people keep calling them "Strum"pioneers? |
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Personally I would not be sad to see vehicle crits gone entirely. They really don't add anything to the game, I really dislike random chance. Sometimes it is an "unavoidable" part of design (accuracy, penetration), but for things like plane crashes and vehicle crits it really just adds frustration.
At the VERY least i wish they'd get rid of garbage like random Main Gun Crits. |
Erm, nope, according to https://coh2.serealia.ca pios do ~ 27 (4x mp40) dps at close range while pathfinders do 20 (2x carbine) + 17 (2x sniper) = 37 dps
This is assuming Pioneers are able to just teleport next to Paths, as well. Realistically you're losing a Pioneer before you make it to the Paths. |
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Caches are one of the things that really ought not to be "faction flavour", given that they are an almost "afterthought" feature of every other faction.
OKW's original reasoning for not being able to build caches is long past, I'd hardly see it as causing a balance issue were they able to build them like every other faction, at this point. Salvage is a "bonus" ability, it doesn't provide close to enough resources to justify a lack of caches, and this can be "avoided" somewhat by having an OST teammate in any case. |
VG's beat rifles at long range only, upgrades or not, similar vet of course.
I assumed when Bar'd rifles would end up winning out at max range, if im honest. I hadn't tested it, though. I'm almost certain they do if they have 1919s. |
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I presume when you say "MP44" you mean "MP40"? "MP44" is just another name for the STG. What exactly would this solve? |
ST VG are 260/60 mu units while Double bar riflemen are 280/120 mu unit.
The riflemen should win in such an exchange especially at the favorable range of 10 and equal veterancy. Vg would perform better at max range.
Do VG beat rifles at absolutely any range at vet/upgraded? |
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