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I like this suggestion, particularly the changes to tier 4/Mobilise Reserves/Penals.
Giving them 4 PTRs and turning them into a legitimate AT squad rather than the really stupid design they have at the moment is a definite plus, as is the suggestion to provide a lategame upgrade to Penals in the form of a seventh-man upgrade that suits their particular skills. (Suggested names include: "Direct Supervision", "Overseer", "Promotion to Strelky", "Redeem")
Penals might suit an actual grenade more than a Molotov, though both are very useful.
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I've said they are NOT overburdened by anything in early game.
Reading comprehension.
Both, repair time capacity and offensive capabilities.
And what is your point here?
Its not like tripple kubel or something is meta opening, so spios don't repair anything prior to luchs/puma anyway.
Yes they are, in comparison to other engineer units.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H5z6szCfhmAAnDprmgwLzc-viZg4HPhKZshNLErvnck/edit#gid=1412677216 Offensive capabilities, yes, repair speed, no. RoyEs are approximately as good at repairing as Spios when they have their fifth man.
Why are you inventing some ludicrous "Triple Kubel" scenario? Does any faction build three ultralight vehicles as their opening? OKW building a kubelwagen is not exceedingly rare. I use Kubels in many of my (2v2) openings, dependent on the map.
Also, just to be sure, you do realize you are in wrong thread to QQ about spios?
Mentioning that Spios have a lot to do early game isnt "QQing", even if you desperately want it to be. Though this is indeed the wrong thread for this.
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I love how everyone is talking about spios being overburdened. Might be true in later stages of the game, but in first 5 minutes they walk over anything allies can field close to medium range. 5-10 minutes, they walk over most of the units. Only when the upgrades come do they lose their combat effectiveness purely because of other tasks they need to do. They will still be dangerous close range at any stage of the game. They can down a 5 man squad in a couple of seconds on some CQC maps that have hard corners.
Their strong combat performance isnt evidence of them not being burdened with tasks though. The point at which they stop being quite so good at fighting allied troops is the point at which they might actually have the time to get engineering done. |
And spios are not heavily burdened in early game either, they literally completely take over PG role for first 5-7 mins.
And you need at least 2 to be as efficient as single spio.
It heals itself, because there are no REs at that time, tho patch changes that now, but I doubt they'll be used.
Your argument for them not being overburdened is that they function as Pgrens for the first 5-7 minutes? Does their necessary constant fighting leave them any time to build sandbags?
As "Efficient" in what sense?
Im aware of why the UC can autoheal. The fact that UKF have not had RoyEs from minute 0 and UKF have been viable is testament to how non-vital RoyEs are to UKF early game. |
Royals have to do most of that too (except for healing) while also being the only source of snares. They spend all of their time just running between vehicles that need repairs, places to lay/defuse mines and skirmishes with vehicles that need to be snares. They can't be further burdened either.
Royals are not as utterly vital to the UKF early game as Sturms are to the OKW early game, however. They're also much, much cheaper.
The earliest UKF vehicle (The UC) Also heals itself, and so doesn't require RoyEs to assist it. |
You think OST pio's aren't the most overburdened unit in the game, while their "fake" main line infantry can't even build sandbags. Sturmpio & RE are maybe the most not overburdened compared other factions.
RE sure, but Sturmpioneers? No, they're already heavily burdened. Sturms are expected to lay mines, wire (With wire that takes significantly longer to lay than normal), repair vehicles (Alone, until lategame, IF the OKW player has gone mechanised), heal (If the player hasn't gone Battlegroup), and act as OKW's assault infantry. They just don't have the time to sandbag at the moment.
This is compounded by their expense and pop-cap pricing that means getting more than one Sturm is simply non-viable in most games (And they are comparatively difficult to replace).
As much as Sandbags on Mainlines is AIDS, I think that OKW are honestly the only faction that can't justify taking it away from them... unless they had access to a cheaper engineer unit to supplement Sturms.
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not reaslly any faster than now. and even if it did, the scatter would prevent it from being OP against anything but the scenario highlighted. im not talking katy level of shots here, but ml-20 would be acceptable.
the idea is that anything in the area COULD get hit, vs the current small zone of impact. even if RNG, at least they would have SOMETHING that could maybe effect a wider area...
You might be better off advocating for airburst shells of some sort then. Huge AOE/relatively low damage shells to soften units significantly in a wide area, but being unlikely to kill anything. I'm not sure if that would even be that desirable though. |
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Arty as a whole is rather imbalanced.
Counterbarrage is bad design as it generally invalidates a lot of allied artillery pieces (Specifically Russian ones), though the allies have the Priest and Sexton which are not vulnerable to the same counters as fixed artillery pieces, and the Russians have the B4 RNG cannon that can delete medium vehicles when it gets lucky (But usually does nothing), which I would argue is the reason that it remains in the game.
I think if Counterbattery were removed then a lot of these units would need to be significantly reworked. SPGs are much too survivable, but conversely; fixed artillery pieces are alternately incredibly easy to counter (If your commander has an offmap) or exceedingly difficult to deal with (If you do not have an offmap, and your opponent actually defends his artillery, and places it in a safe position).
Simply removing it, as unpleasant as it is to deal with, I think would have a significant knock-on effect on balance without further changes. |
but costs do matter. thats the best metric we have for balance. if x build is competitive to a more expensive build and its not made up of hard counters then either one side is over performing to that cost or the other is underperforming. resources are time given value, and that value has to match up more or less.
long and short, in the case of cons if you build one con, the sidegrades may not be worth that investment, if you build none it certainly is not. as such the extra investment of the sidegrades IS tied to the cost of the unit.
this isnt inflating the cost of my favorite unit to make it look one way or another, this is simple math. if you only build a single con, and get molitovs, that single con has more invested in it than if there was 4 or 10. since it IS a global it gets more cost efficient the more units that use it, but it IS extra investment none the less. much like a gren with a 60mu lmg should perform better than a gren alone, or one with a 45mu upgrade for that matter. more investment should mean better performance. thats the basis of balance.
I think, similarly to attempting to compare units between factions, the impact of "Investment" into a singular unit should also not be directly compared to another faction's "investment" into the similar unit, but instead how it fits into the roster of the faction. |
That's substantially wrong. A good player uses the JP4 to hard counter Allies mediums and TDs hard. It has a low target size, a high rate of fire, and more than enough penetration to take care of most allied vehicles. It is the solution against these pesky USF Jacksons. The JP4 vet bonus are fantastic. I see a lot of JP4s in 2on2+ games, more than OKW P4s, even more JP4s in narrow and long maps.
Is your solution would be to buff other allies or axis vehicles? Is that how I read it? Or why did you bring that subject up?
I honestly prefer building a JP4 than a PIV or PV in pretty much every game as OKW. Saves resources, and I usually have enough AI performance in my Luchs/FlakHT. (Or KT if the game goes that long).
Though the Panther has its place, I don't find it as useful for OKW as I do for OST... But that's more my playstyle causing that than anything else. |
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